A train wreck of advice

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by johnfrwhipple, May 16, 2014.

  1. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    train
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  2. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    wreck
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  3. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Preslope implies a liner then another mudbed...so, and I understand the answer as I expect you do too, technically, it is not a preslope, but all liners need to be on a sloped bed. So, taking things out of context is very misleading. What those supposed pros were doing does not adhere to any TCNA or manufacturer's guidelines, but is one reason why the TCNA says 75% of the tiled showers built are built incorrectly. If they waterproofed the seams, it would not leak, but it would perform poorly, have no warranty, and be a disappointment for the owner. It's tricky, but possible to waterproof the clamping drain seal, but that has not been the recommended way since the introduction of the Kerdi drain in 2001 - the new (well, nearly 14-years 'new') way is much easier than the old one, and a lot more flexible. There is a readily available conversion drain if you already have a clamping drain installed.

    Maybe they should read the instructions, or watch the video, or get some training. I can see no reason to throw RedGard into a typical Kerdi shower install.

    John has a new mission in life, discredit anything on any other website he can no longer directly influence by posting there, and to paint a bad taste in anything produced by Schluter. A man with a mission...a man with a chip on his shoulder.
  4. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    of
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  5. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    advice
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  6. DougB

    DougB Member

    "have no warranty"

    I can't believe anyone has EVER been paid for a warranty claim. Used wrong thinset, didn't overlap enough, the laboratory said...........

    It cleary states on page 196 of the warranty disclaimier: This warranty shall be null and void unless the original installer wore a tin foil hat while building the entire bathroom.
  7. Justadrip

    Justadrip New Member

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    Location:
    New York
    Bet its never happened and never will. The onus will always be put on the installer never the products.
    The most I have seen is a company throw a few bags of this and a few rolls of that when something happens.
  8. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    thin
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  9. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Protect the corporation at all cost . This is where the corporations gets ground over personal rights . Easy job to convince the installer to accept some '' payment '' -- some products with no real value other than monetary --and do the repair without any -- paperless -- trace or records on the corporation's database. The result is disastrous for the tile mechanic which has no more say -- just a controlled tool in the tile industry -- .

    IN OTHER WORDS -- IOW -- the responsible party is the installer , which takes the blame -- acceptance of responsibility -- . The manufacturer -- corporation -- saves face and can claim '' installer error '' everywhere , '' this is the first time '' , '' never happened before '' , or any derivatives of it .
    Last edited: May 18, 2014
  10. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Easy way out -- mfg warranty -- , when the outcome -- responsibility -- is already known -- 90% or more -- installer error .

    Warranty doesn't necessary translate into responsibility . It is easier to make work a product -- itself -- in a controlled lab test then into a construction assembly , where everything else is bound to each other and is expected to work in harmony .
  11. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    cheap
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  12. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    orange
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  13. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    775
    Location:
    Montreal

    I was trying to be moderate with the numbers . The 10% are for Hybrid installations . :D
  14. DougB

    DougB Member

    I would think a man of your experience, would know that it's shiny side out!
  15. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Active Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Here we have 2 membranes, and 2 thinsets from a total of 4 different company's all working together for one common goal, None of them like the company they represent because of all the rules placed upon them, limiting their ability to work in the field with their peers.......They simply feel they can reach across bi-partisan lines to get the job done, Blue, green, red, orange.

    The tile MFG industry is becoming bi-partisan, and seemingly operating like a big gov't corporate machine, starting wars in far off internet places, just like the gov't..... Jim against John, they have us busy fighting with each other while they pull more wool over our eyes, offering non-existant warrantys "Dreams".........It all a big plan......


    JIM: Eat your orange heart out. Thats modified there under the orange peels.........add CBU and that means we have 5 MFG wrrty. "Dream" voids in this train wreck...


    photo.jpg
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  16. DougB

    DougB Member

    Being just a 'handy' engineer - I realized that the challange was getting the shower pan and drain correct. I know I'm a rookie, so I purchased ready made shower niches and shower pans for the two bathrooms I've remodeled in my home. I used Tile Redi - not cheap - a $500 shower pan - but all you have to do is set it in mortar. Very sturdy, all nicely sloped to the drain, recessed on the sides with a lip for 1/2" cement board.

    I know you pro's can do it for much less, and all sorts of shapes - but I advise rookies (like myself) to consider a preformed pan.
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  17. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    restrictive
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  18. DougB

    DougB Member

    I'll see if I have pictures.

    The pan has a 2" pvc drain stub bonded to it. They also threw in some flashing that goes behind the cement board, and over the lip of the pan - to ensure no water where the cement board and the pan meet. You do have to use expoy mortar on the pan - and they don't give you enough - for the price they should give you more.

    It took 1 hour to set the pan - most of the time was spent mixing the mortar.

    Considering that the drain is built in (as well as the curb and it'is pitched in a couple of degrees), and it's not going to leak, is a good solution for a DIY'er. I don't know if it the time saving aspect out weights the cost (for a pro).
  19. DougB

    DougB Member

    Not a very good picture of the Tile Redi pan - but you can see the curb - at the bottom

    Shower_Almost_Done.jpg
  20. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Active Member

    Messages:
    459
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Doug, That is lookin very good, did you do all the tiling and everything yourself???

    I may need you to drop the multimeter and come build some showers for me !!!!......I find in Minneapolis people are willing to pay on average $35 an hour!! for this skillset ( what a joke ) so I cant pay you much, some days it surely may be harder work and less pay than your trade, but I wont ask you to pull any home runs !!!!!!!!!!!

    Why dont you head over to the "Educating the budget client on Tile shower pricing" thread and tell us how much this shower project has cost you, what was involved, material choices and why? ballpark it and figure in your labor/materials and say you make around $35/hr when your tiling????

    Im thinking A Minneapolis area project like this with some of the materials youve mentioned and skilled labor you may have A $7-10K shower on your hands????
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