A couple of questions-- Fleck 7000

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by fatdaddy, Aug 26, 2012.

  1. fatdaddy

    fatdaddy New Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I posted over in the wrong forum and have a couple of questions for you.
    A brief background:
    This past week I had a two-tank carbon filter put in because my well tested positive for pesticides. Two GAC tanks and a pre/post filter. The pre-filter clogged up quickly (three days) and the house lost dramatic pressure.
    I had the installer come out but,while nice,he is a real biscuit,and I have pretty much determined that I need a back-washable filter on this new set-up as my well water is pretty heavy with seditment.And I am not going to change filters every three -four days. My well pump needs replacement about every six years due to the quality of water. I am not drilling a new well or heading in that direction either,yet.

    My questions now are:
    1) Is the FLECK 7000 a good sediment filter...any brands that the folks her like more?
    2) Is CHEMSORB a good material for the inside? Does it really do the job for as long as the company says?
    3) I have been assured that the soda ash is for the PH and will not be removed by the filters. Does the soda as need the react with the galavanized tank to be effective or ,someday down the line,can I replace that old dinosaur with a modern tank?

    My setup is something like this:
    -well is 210+" deep. If I recall, a 3/4 Goulds pump in the well.
    -I inject soda ash and the water continues to a glavanized holding tank.
    -water leaves tank to the new carbon tank set-up.

    Thanks in advance.
  2. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,265
    Location:
    Maine
    It would be good to know just exactly how much sediment your well is producing but if you are chewing pumps every 6 years I'd say it's pretty bad. Here's the real problem. That sediment will eventually fill the well until it is at the pump which means you raise the pump and wait for it to happen again. I have put what is called a sock ( a fiberglass mesh bag ) over pumps before and they do extend the life of the pump but again, eventually the sediment gets at the pumps level and the troubles start all over again. I know you don't like the idea but a new well is your only real solution. Everything else you do will be stop gap at best.
  3. fatdaddy

    fatdaddy New Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Stop gaps,measured in years,is OK with me. I do not see myself in this place beyond the next pump replacement.
    So what about the other questions? Any thoughts?
    Thanks in advance for any/all imput!
  4. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    Ontario California
    My questions now are:
    1) Is the FLECK 7000 a good sediment filter...any brands that the folks her like more? 7000 is excellent, but... this is one of the rare times I wmay lean toward a flapper disc design (autotrol) if you do not want to install any filter ahead of the system. The piston style units are extremely reliable, except when exposed to sediment on a regular basis. That being said, the piston design of the 7000 will probably last many years, but it is simply more susceptible to damage than a flapper disc design. My suggestion, put a Lakos Twist to clean http://www.twistiiclean.com/ pre filter in ahead of the 7000, and use a micro-z, turbidex, filter-ag+, Chemsorb or nextsand media with a heavy backwash, at least 13-15 GPM per sq. ft.
    2) Is CHEMSORB a good material for the inside? Does it really do the job for as long as the company says? Yes, similar if not the same as the medias mentioned above. It has almost eliminated the traditional multi-media design as well as filter-ag.
    3) I have been assured that the soda ash is for the PH and will not be removed by the filters. Does the soda as need the react with the galavanized tank to be effective or ,someday down the line,can I replace that old dinosaur with a modern tank? We need a serious water test done to answer that question accurately. We try to use simpler methods of pH control than soda ash injection when possible. Calcite and other medias in a tank are the preferred methods when possible.

    My setup is something like this:
    -well is 210+" deep. If I recall, a 3/4 Goulds pump in the well.
    -I inject soda ash and the water continues to a glavanized holding tank.
    -water leaves tank to the new carbon tank set-up.

    Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]
  5. fatdaddy

    fatdaddy New Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Wow! Thanks very much for your response. I will wait for the installer to come up his solution and then evaluate my options. Thanks.
  6. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Just what type pesticides and how much of whatever?

    What does the "sediment" from the well look like, or what is it?

    What type pre and post filters? Meaning the micron rating and if they are disposable cartridge filters or not?

    Is the well a rock bore (cased into bed rock) or a fully cased and then screened well (into sand and gravel)?
  7. fatdaddy

    fatdaddy New Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Connecticut
    -Above action levels for Dieldren on some Federal test. Not a big deal for me. People have different points of view and it is not worth arguing about. I installed this system only because in the future a buyer will probably want it and I thought I might as well get any advantage from it as well. Also, I will be testing once a year or so and fully expect various changes in the content/quality.Contamination of well water is a given,but changes can be expected by date and season and other factors.Like I said...it is for future resale.
    -The sediment is reddish/beige slime. If I recall the pump being pulled from the well last time,it is the same down the hole. The pump was pretty much gone,and again...records indicate a new pump every six or so years. The consistencey of the goo is not quite like coffee syrup but close. No real chunks ot it.
    The filter,both pre and post, is five micon. I changed it last night so that is twice in less than a week...thus my thought about a back-washable filter prior to the new install.

    A note--prior to last weeks install,I had a large tank that was a carbon filter that backwashed. It had not been re-bedded in ten+ years. The cost to rebed it was $565 and the new two-tank,non backwashable system put me back $1500 but the selling point the installer gave me was that backwashing does not remove all the pesticides. The timer was malfunctioning so I went ahead with the new system. In hindsight I should stayed with the old one but that is water under the bridge now.
    I will be changing the carbon myself in the future so if I live to be a hundred I might recoup my expenses. I also plan on installing the FLECK 7000 myself if I get it. I might also buy a little time and just keep changing the filters to see what happens though I do not expect much of a change. I have a few aso I will use them up.
  8. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,146
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I know this started in the well and pump forum and that I suggested you post filter questions here, but I thought you might still consider some form of mitigation of the well issues there. I would exhaust all options of mitigating the problem at the well before resorting to filtering in the house.
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Slime says bacteria, usually IRB (iron reducing bacteria; it's harmless) and that will clog all filters. So the ony way to cure the problem is to kill the bacteria. You can do that temporarily by shocking the well.

    Back washing carbon will not get rid of anything but particulate matter and certainly not slime or bacteria but non backwashed carbon should fail fairly quickly unless you can keep the bacteria/slime out of it.

    Five micron is much more than needed. we can't see particles smaller than down to 50-45 micron.

    Being in CT you more than likely have a rock bore well and there is no way to keep bacteria out, or chemicals for that matter. And a new well usually comes with no guarantees and especially no guarantee of quality.
  10. fatdaddy

    fatdaddy New Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Connecticut
    An update to the situation...

    I installed the new backwashable sediment filter but there is a possible issue with the FLECK valve. It may be faulty on the out-flow side and I am getting a new one sent as the unit does not seem to be filtering.
    Highly unlikely that there in a clog in the internal tube. The backwashing runs like a top.No issue there,
    My new development is:
    The color of the sediment and the quantity is very different. From a milk chocolate color to a very DARK chocolate color and the 5 micron pre-filter clogs in several hours now depending on use.
    Also,when I ran the backwash (a total of twenty-minutes,full blast) it really puts pressure on the well and my psi,at the end,is so low that I had to recharge my tank with air.
    SO--
    I am not panicking yet...but what would account for the dramatic color change and IF the sediment filter fails to do the job,for whatever reason,what will a new well cost me...? A ballpark figure is fine and it might just be that the pump is going as the symptoms are the same as the last time it failed.
    I assume I am bedrock.It is Connecticut after all.
    My current well is less than 210' with a 3/4hp pump on a one inch coil.
    Can old wells be re-lined or is that worth doing?
    I knew that installing "stuff" might lead to expenses and problems but I really do not have the $$ right now for the well guys to do their thing...but it might be I have no choice!
  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You should know you can rebuild a control valve instead of getting a new one and while replacing the old one pull the distributor tube up and then damaging it when screwing the new valve on the tank to the point of getting gravel and/or filter mineral out of the filter into all your plumbing, fixtures and appliances... That is a nasty mess that can be very expensive to remedy. The dealer you bought from should have told you this but..

    I would assume the valve has a partial blockage of 'stuff' fro the well. It's much easier to replace parts of/on the valve than the whole valve.

    Did you shock the well to get rid of the IRB?

    If not the pump inlet is probably blocked up and running water as much as you have been may have pulled the water level down in the well so far that the pump is not capable of delivering the volume it normally does when there is more water in the well.

    A pump only has to work to move water from the level of the water in the well, as that level falls the pump has to work harder until the water depth gets down to were the size pump can't do the job.

    I've replaced pumps in water like yours that had no more than 2-3 1/8" holes through the gunk blocking their inlet. Your acidic water is causing the steel well casing to rust and the rust and IRB is causing the color and probably any color change you see. And IRB can be any color from clear/snotty to black slimy/stringy and it loves to grow in higher currents like around the edge of holes and a pump's inlet is nothing but a bunch of about 1/4" holes...

    You should search the forum for my posts about shocking a well, and shock yours. I'd suggest you be prepared to pull the pump and maybe have to wire brush the inlet or replace the wet end of the pump.
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