1. mikept

    mikept DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    CT
    I bought a watts 200psi dial pressure gauge from home depot and hooked it up to my basement washing machine hookup. The gauge also has what i think is called a lazy hand.

    Well!
    90PSI on the cold!, i few less on the hot.

    Should i worry ? Do i have to call and make a stink about this???


    The needle vibrated at 80 when i ran the tub and upstairs sink. I'm not sure how fast acting the needle is, but shutting off sinks agressivly made the needle record 100psi. Very aggressively 105, and turning the tub off in a very violent and contrived manner registered just under 120. My shower head is probably a safe 80psi due to height.


    Im going to replace my washing machine hoses with the fluidmaster no-burst kind. Maybe add an arrestor too. Dont want a flood. The pipes have always been very very noisy her but they don't bang or thud when stopping the water. I have seen my washer hoses jump some though when my neighbor turns something off.

    What to do what to do..
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2008
  2. patrick88

    patrick88 Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    Webster Ma.
    I would get the Brass Craft no burst laundry hoses. They are a lot better and tend to keep water hammer down. I have installed the fluid master hoses and have had bad water hammer. The fluid master ones seem to use a smaller hose. You should also turn off your laundry valves when not running your machine.

    You would also be wise to install a PRV(pressure reducing valve) on your water main. You will also want to install a thermo expansion tank in line too.
  3. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,452
    Location:
    Connecticut
    When you were measuring with nothing flowing that is the measurement you are to be concerned with. The spikes when shutting something off was actually a measure of water hammer pressure.

    Any time the static measurement is over 80 PSI. by code a Pressure Reducing Valve (PRV) needs to be installed. This will in effect create a closed system where thermal expansion of the water inside the water heater must be considered. You will need to install a potable water thermal expansion tank on the water heater between the valve on the cold side and the water heater.

    If you leave your lazy hand gauge attached overnight it will probably record a much higher pressure. Many muni water systems go higher at night from lack of water usage and the system running pumps to refill storage tanks.
  4. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,334
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Any pressure much over 60-65 psi is too high and can cause hose, fixture, and appliance failure. As suggested, you need a pressure regulator valve and expansion tank installed in your supply line. Usually the PRV goes very near the point where the supply line enter the house. The thermal expansion tank goes after the PRV and before the water heater. This is a frequently discussed topic, and you might find it interesting to read the archives on the topic. Basically, a PRV has a check valve build in and creates what we call a "closed system". Without a PRV, the system is "open". When your water heater operates and heats the water, the water expands (high school physics) In an open system, this expansion is absorbed by the city water main. However, in a closed system, the PRV prevents this from happening and the pressure in your water heater rises dramatically...enough to trip the T/P valve on the heater. The thermal expansion tank absorbs this pressure rise and keeps the pressure normal in your heater.
  5. mikept

    mikept DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    CT
    Each Apt in this complex has a basement and two stories, and the buildings are 10-15 apts long. Every 4th building has a large gas water heater and boiler and a chimney.

    So I would not be the one to fix this, the water heater isn't in my building. Will this effect me enough that i have to make a big stink about this??


    I measured the pressure in the middle of the night and during the day and busy morning and it only changes by a few psi. I live 2 miles from the nearest water tower. With a faster moving gauge i bet the instantaneous pressure spike would read higher.

    In my basement theres three copper water pipes for cold and hot and two galvanized pipes for the radiator supply and return that all run through to my neighbors. The main cold water pipe is insulated before and after my 3/4" tee, the main hot isnt so i can see that its 1 1/4" and reduces to 1" at the 3/4" tee. Then theres theres a lonely 1/2" hot line. I was thinking about insulating the main hot so i dont hear the medium low level but constant noise in my basement.

    edit: The fluid masters do look a little thin,(water hammer) but the crimp and ferrule look heavier duty to me than the brasscraft in the pics that ive seen onlilne. I've heard thats where hoses burst.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2008
  6. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    The hammer spikes are not a concern, especially if you do not actually have banging noise in the pipes. That gauge is not designed to accurately record those, and it may be reading more or less than the true spike.

    But the steady state pressure at 90 is too high. Long term, your washing machine hoses and toilet fill valve parts are vulnerable. The other number to look for is .....does the pressure creep up temporarily while the water heater burner is running? This would dictate the need for an expansion tank. You also need the pressure regulator valve to get the static down to about 60.
  7. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    I would contact the apt. management and inform them that the plumbing system is not operating correctly. You can also let them know that should there be a failure that they will be responsible for any damage to your personal property, of course they may ask you to leave also if you do, so be aware of that.
  8. mikept

    mikept DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    CT
    My mother didnt believe me when i told her that they are liable for damages if theres any burst hose pipes floods or water damage in this building because the water pressure is high.

    Where does it say that they are liable. I live in CT if that matters.

    I measured it at 87 now, its 90 at night.
  9. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,452
    Location:
    Connecticut
    In CT. max pressure by code is 80 PSI. you are on a common system for all apartments you are not individually metered. It is their responsibility to provide you with 80-PSI. or, less. Notify them in writing and you are not responsible.

    PS. Stainless steel hoses are no-burst hoses. Cloth reinforced rubber hoses burst when the cloth rots out in about 4-5 years of use.r
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2008
  10. mikept

    mikept DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    CT
    I have a few lav supply hoses where the braid has rusted out in a couple years of use...


    They're doing an inspection soon, im just going to mention to them the high pressure when they go through i don't want to make a big deal about it.
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,924
    Location:
    New England
    That 1/2" line that is hot may be a hot water recirculation line. As I understand it, when the runs are longer than some value in a multiunit structure, they are required. If you think about the distance from the boiler to the furthest unit, how long would it take to get hot water if it was the first thing in the morning and the whole (maybe huge) supply line had cooled off...you'd waste huge amounts of water getting it to that unit.
  12. mikept

    mikept DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    CT
    Thats what i thought it was for, my apartment tee's off with 3/4" so it cant be a supply line to one of the aptms, at least not on its own. Do they have to have a pump to recirculate hot water? The last apartment in my building is 15' or 20' below the boiler elevation.
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,924
    Location:
    New England
    Yes, there's probably a pump for the recirculation. It might also have an aquastat so it could be turned off if not needed, but is probably just running.
  14. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,452
    Location:
    Connecticut

    Stainless Steel Rusting???
    Do not drink that water!
    Something is very wrong with it!
  15. mikept

    mikept DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    CT
    I dont drink the water, i drink bottleld.

    I think the hoses they used were a "chinese" grade of stainless steel. Ie not very stainless.
  16. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Central Florida
    I had a dive knife once that had "STAINLESS" stamped in the blade. Those letters were always rusted.

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