7000sxt programming help

Users who are viewing this thread

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
I thought everything was fine, but there still seems to be something wrong with my water softener. When I add water and initiate a manual regeneration, the water gets softened, but then it goes back to hardened water (~21 grains) after an unknown amount of time. I also haven't had to put in a new bag of salt since I started it up which I'm sure isn't normal. Here are my current settings:

DF = Gal
VT = dF2b
CT = Fd
C = 50.0
H = 25.0
RS = cr
DO = 28
RT = 3:00
B1 = 8.0
Bd = 60.0
B2 = 5.0
RR = 10.0
BF = 20.0
FM = t1.2

I was going to verify the brine flow fill rate, but I have some questions. To do it, do I just hold the "Extra Cycle" button for five seconds, then press it three more times for "brine refill?" What do I do after I'm done with that? Do I need to do a manual regeneration after that or can I just put it back into service?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
That is the way I read it. That should add to the water in the tank, so you would be using more salt during the next regen normally.

Based on your symptom, you are not expecting to see the 0.25*20=5 gallons of water being added as it should be added.

How long has this been in service?

The troubleshooting section has
Insufficient water flowing into brine tank:
Check brine tank fill time and clean brine line flow control if plugged.​
 
Last edited:

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
I started the softener up the same time as this thread, May 2016. I haven't had to refill the salt since.

I just check the brine fill flow rate and it took about 4 minutes to make a gallon. Any other ideas?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
Just reviewing...2.5 cuft resin. BF=20 minutes. BLFC = 0.25. Gives 5 gallons of water. Should dissolve 15 pounds of salt each regen.

172 days have elapsed. If you regenerated every 10 days, you would have used about 255 pounds of salt or a little over 6 40-pound bags or 5 50-lb bags of sodium chloride salt. How much salt did you add initially?
A salt bridge would seem unlikely, but that could explain your symptom. Are you using salt pellets, or some other form?

Is the brine tank outside, hot garage, or inside?

I would probably be trying to dig into my salt being careful to not damage anything. Do not add more salt until you can see some water along the salt.
 
Last edited:

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
I want to say that I added four 50lb bags, but I don't remember. There's still a good amount of salt in there so, I know I'm definitely not going through the amount of salt I should be using. I'm using the Morton Salt System Saver II Pellets.

I don't think there's a bridge since this has been going on from the beginning and the water does get softened during a manual regeneration (with me adding water beforehand). I will try whatever you suggest though. I don't have the slightest idea what is going on.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
When you add water, how much to you add?
Did you do the test you described in step 21? Maybe use a yard stick as a dipstick to see how much the water level rises during brine fill.

For an 18 inch round tank, every inch represents 1.1 gallons if there is not salt. If 18 inches square, every inch represents 1.4 gallons. Other tank sizes will have a rise inversely with the square of the diameter or square side. Your recipe calls for 5 gallons to be added.

If that water is rising into salt pellets, the rise should be about 2.5 times as much.
 

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
I added five gallons as someone suggested earlier in this thread, prior to a manual regen.

I did do the test and it was normal. I got a gallon in about four minutes. The test was done by removing the line from the tank and putting it in a gallon-sized container.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
I added five gallons as someone suggested earlier in this thread, prior to a manual regen.

I did do the test and it was normal. I got a gallon in about four minutes. The test was done by removing the line from the tank and putting it in a gallon-sized container.
Suppose the float valve that is supposed to keep the brine tank from overflowing had a failure where the float stayed up, or the valve that the float controls was stuck. Suppose that prevented water from being added to the brine tank during BF. I think you want to do a BF and check for the water level rise with a dip stick.

I think I remember people being advised to see if they could blow into the brine line to check for a blockage.
 

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
If there was a failure with the float, wouldn't I be unable to test the brine flow rate like I did above?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
If there was a failure with the float, wouldn't I be unable to test the brine flow rate like I did above?
Well, yes you would not be unable to do the test-- based on your statement about removing the line from tank.

I did do the test and it was normal. I got a gallon in about four minutes. The test was done by removing the line from the tank and putting it in a gallon-sized container.

As I interpreted that, the brine tank was totally out of it at that point. So the flow from from the controller going into the container would not be affected by the float valve.
 

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
I cycled it to BF and the tank did fill with water to about halfway. I then forced a full regen and the water is soft again.

I have a question though. Is the water level supposed to be below the brine grid after a regen or is it supposed to be at the same level after BF inbetween regens. I checked my tank and the water is below the grid. Is this the source of the problem I'm having?
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
Most softeners are programmed for BF as the final phase of the regeneration cycle. That would prepare brine for the next regen cycle which could be 1 day or 2 weeks later. As brine is prepared in advance, there is no delay needed to allow time for salt to dissolve.

Some softeners are programmed for BF to occur as the 1st phase of the regen cycle. This is appropriate when Potassium Chloride is utilized, as the dissolve factor for Potassium will vary depending on temperature. When BF occurs first, there is typically a 1.5 hr delay for potassium to dissolve before the controller advances to the next regen phase.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
When you advanced the controller to BF and water filled the brine tank to 1/2 way, did you happen to check to ensure that the safety float was not lifted by that quantity of water?
 

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
When I cycled through to BF, it was the last phase before it went back to normal operation and the tank was little less than half full. I'm guessing that BF is the last phase based on this.

When I forced the full regen, the water in the tank is at/or below the salt grid and I don't understand why. Shouldn't the water be at the same level, as it was at the end of the BF, inbetween regens? What can I do to fix this?

When you advanced the controller to BF and water filled the brine tank to 1/2 way, did you happen to check to ensure that the safety float was not lifted by that quantity of water?

I watched it and it stopped when the timer ran down. The float wasn't activated.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
When I cycled through to BF, it was the last phase before it went back to normal operation and the tank was little less than half full. I'm guessing that BF is the last phase based on this.

When I forced the full regen, the water in the tank is at/or below the salt grid and I don't understand why. Shouldn't the water be at the same level, as it was at the end of the BF, inbetween regens? What can I do to fix this?
img_6.jpg

Looking at this picture, are you saying that when you had stepped through to the brine fill as a test, the water level rose to about 7 at the end.

Before/when you later started the immediate regen, the water level had dropped to 1.5? As the unit finished up its cycle, the water level was back up to 7?

I understand that you probably don't have nearly as much salt in your brine tank as in the picture.
 

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
View attachment 36936
Looking at this picture, are you saying that when you had stepped through to the brine fill as a test, the water level rose to about 7 at the end.

Before/when you later started the immediate regen, the water level had dropped to 1.5? As the unit finished up its cycle, the water level was back up to 7?

I understand that you probably don't have nearly as much salt in your brine tank as in the picture.

Yes. I skipped through to BF and the water level was approximately at 7 (with salt) when that phase completed. The BF timer ran out, the tank stopped filling (at approx 7), and the system went back to normal functions.

I then immediately started the full regen cycle (with the water still being at about 7) and when I checked the following day, the water was back down to at or below grid level (did not come back up to 7).
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
Yes. I skipped through to BF and the water level was approximately at 7 (with salt) when that phase completed. The BF timer ran out, the tank stopped filling (at approx 7), and the system went back to normal functions.

I then immediately started the full regen cycle (with the water still being at about 7) and when I checked the following day, the water was back down to at or below grid level (did not come back up to 7).
Weird. This would seem to be explainable if the safety float stuck shut. A leak in the bottom brine tank could also explain it. Would you notice a leak on the floor?

Is the brine tank on the same floor that the softener mineral (resin) tank is sitting?

And I guess another mystery is why would 4 or 5 gallons take you from 1.5 to 7 on the picture?
 
Last edited:

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
There's no leak. The concrete would be wet around the tank and it isn't. The brine tank and resin tank are on the same floor/level. The numbers were just an approximation. The point I was trying to make was that the level of water after the BF phase completed was much higher than the level of water after letting the regen go through all it's phases.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
I would try gently raising and lowering the float with tool that you make. If there is binding, that could explain part of the problem.

The other question would be why, when your refill water actually gets injected, your 20 minutes (or whatever you are using) times 0.25 BLFC (= 5 gallons) raises the level to what we are calling level 7. Maybe that is expected. What is the size and shape of your brine tank at about level 4? That may or may not be a problem. If you have salt above the high water mark, the rise might be about 8.5 inches in an 18 inch square tank or 11 inches in an 18 inch round tank. So the expected rise depends on your tank.

The suspected sticky safety float is a problem IMO.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
By your description, BF is programmed as the final phase of the regeneration cycle, just before the controller returns to 'Service' mode.

As brine fill actually occurs when you manually advance the controller to 'BF', then the issue does not appear to be a float binding problem. Since brine fill does not occur when the unit automatically (or manually) performs a full regeneration, this then seems to imply the controller is proceeding directly to 'Service' mode after 'Fast Rinse', skipping over 'BF'.

Perhaps the digital controller needs to be reset and re-calibrated. I recall Dittohead had previously stated a method to perform that procedure on a 7000sxt.

Edit to add: this posting mentions syncing issues and resetting in post #8 https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/fleck-7000-main-board-replacement.60611/#post-485165

This one in post #14 https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/7000sxt-error-0.63542/#post-476748

Post #7 https://terrylove.com/forums/index....y-changes-capacity-setting.52819/#post-385215
 
Last edited:
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks