50 amp stove line question

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by JerryR, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. JerryR

    JerryR Member

    Messages:
    251
    Location:
    Florida
    I'm in the middle of a kitchen remodel. Where the old kitchen had a cooktop we're installing a freestanding 30 " electric stove. We want to Use the existing wiring from the cooktop (50 amp - 4 wire ) to power the stove. The box is mounted about 24" off the floor where it will be behind the stove. The stove calls for electrical box mounted on wall between the floor and 8" off the floor. The wiring comes from the ceiling so I can't move the box down and running a new line back to the breaker box seems like too much work.

    Can I tap the wires in the current box and install a new box at the floor? If so this would require joining 4each pairs #8 stranded wires. What size wire nuts for those? I was thinking maybe install a disconnect box where the current box is as this would make connecting these wire sizes easier.

    Any suggestions.

    JR

    [​IMG]
  2. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,353
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Install the properly rated socket and use a properly rated Pigtail on your appliance.


    Have Fun.
  3. JerryR

    JerryR Member

    Messages:
    251
    Location:
    Florida
    That s my intention, to install a recessesed and properly rated NEMA 14-50 recepticle in a box on the wall near the floor. Then uses the proper pigtail from the stove.

    My question is how do I tap into the existing wiring box from the now unused cooktop in the picture, to extend the line down to the floor and mount the proper box/receptical there. Original box is fed with #6 wire, 3 wire plus ground Romex and I'll have to be recessed mounted since stove goes flush to the wall.

    Are there approved wire nuts big enough and if so where do I find them. If not wire nuts, what other connections are legal for connecting a pair of #6 stranded wires.

    JR
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,882
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    I would not use wire nuts for that size wires. I would use crimps or lugs to do it. Regardless of what the specifications say, is there room for the plug behind the range at the point where the J-box is now, if the box were recessed flush with the wall?
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  5. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,353
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I must be missing something.

    Why would you want to add another connection ? That connection can not share.

    Just get the proper length Pigtail.


    Watt am I missing ?
  6. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,542
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Try these http://www.nsiindustries.com/products/electrical/polaris.aspx
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,184
    Location:
    New England
    Stoves often have a recess for the connections and the top area may end up flush with the wall, so if your connection was there, you couldn't push the stove back as far. So, there could be a very good reason they want the electrical connection down lower.
  8. Murphy625

    Murphy625 Member

    Messages:
    149
    Location:
    Michigan
    This doesn't make sense.. If you have room to install a disconnect, why not just use the existing box where its at? Is it in the way of the stove or something?

    Do not use wire nuts on 50 amp wire.. its too much. Split bolts or some other compression type connection is needed. You could use crimp-on wire terminals and screws..
  9. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,542
    Location:
    North Carolina
    this is what the link is to

    Attached Files:

  10. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,882
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; Watt am I missing ?

    You are "missing" that the pigtail's plug is OUTSIDE the wall and may prevent the range from sliding against the wall unless the receptacle is in a location where there is a recess or an "open" area..
  11. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,542
    Location:
    North Carolina
    (B) Connection at the Rear Base of a Range. For cord-and-plug-connected household electric ranges, an attachment plug and receptacle connection at the rear base of a range, if it is accessible from the front by removal of a drawer, shall be considered as meeting the intent of 422.33(A).
  12. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,353
    Location:
    Houston, TX

    Thanks hj.


    I figured it out, and must have had my Head up my Ass.


    No wonder I could not see the problem.
  13. Homeownerinburb

    Homeownerinburb New Member

    Messages:
    525
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    There are simple butt splices technically the same as what JW references, except not insulated, very readily available. Assuming that you can't find JW's connectors close by, go for the common ones, they work fine. They come rated to fit different gauges of wire. Buy four of the correct size and a roll of good quality insulating tape. Get a very tight torque on the connectors.

    Replace that 1 1/2" box with a 2 1/8" box, which you will recess flush into the wall and use a blanking plate to close.

    Buy the short length of NM that you need at Home Despot or some other retailer that will sell by the foot.

    Use a 2 1/8" deep box for the receptacle box as well.

    Bob's your uncle.
  14. JerryR

    JerryR Member

    Messages:
    251
    Location:
    Florida
    I decided to have an electrician extend the line. It's simple and inexpensive.

    I've already wired for over cabinet and under cabinet lights etc. i have no problem with the 15 amp and 20 amp stuff but I don't like the high current stuff that Home Depot sells.

    As a side note, after the old kitchen was ripped out we had a gas smell. The only gas into the house is LP to a gas fireplace so I shut it off at the underground tank.

    We still had occasional gas smell. I had all drains capped. I called a plumber. He opened the drywall behind where the old kitchen sink was and buried behind the drywall was a clean out with a VERY LOOSE screw cap. He extended the clean out so it can be accessed under the sink once the new cabinet is installed, and smell is gone.

    Another surprise was when the tile backsplash was removed I found a j-box without a cover plate and with live wires buried behind the tile. I used that line to install a switch to power the cabinet lights.

    Also all the breakers in the panel were not labeled correctly. I spent a few hours identifying and properly labeling the breakers. The previous owner left the original blue prints which included original electrical layout. There was obvious additions over the years which required new breakers.
  15. JerryR

    JerryR Member

    Messages:
    251
    Location:
    Florida
    UPDATE:

    Electrician came out today. Original line had a 50 amp breaker with a 65 foot run of # 8 standard Romex.

    I had the #8 removed and had #6 installed (70 feet of wire) from breaker to stove receptical. . It took 2 guys 2 1/2 hours to fish and run it through the hot attic crawl space.

    They also removed another unused run of #8 w/50 amp breaker that was feeding the old double oven and an unused 120/20a dedicated line for an old microwave.

    JR
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