4X3 Reducer? (Toilet)

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by PM5K, Oct 9, 2006.

  1. PM5K

    PM5K New Member

    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    So bought a new Crane toilet kit that comes with everything, including the wax ring.

    I go to put it on but the toilet won't sit flush to the ground, after repeated attempts I finally decided to quit.

    The gasket was for three and four inch waste lines, the flange sits above the floor.

    The wax had all come off so I tried to put it into the flange without the toilet to see how it would fit, the black plastic part will not go all the way down and sit flush with the flange, it appears that the tapered part of the plastic piece is too wide to sit in the flange.

    I have a Home Depot book that mentioned a 4X3 reducer.

    So here are my questions:

    Should the black plastic piece from the wax ring sit flush in the flange? (I tested it on another flange at the store and it did)

    Do I need a 4x3 reducer to fix this problem and if so what exactly is it?

    TIA
  2. plumber1

    plumber1 Plumber

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Florida
    Just use a regular wax ring............Thats what most of us do.......
  3. PM5K

    PM5K New Member

    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    You mean without the horn?

    That's common practice?

    TIA...
  4. prashster

    prashster New Member

    Messages:
    941
    The flange should rest on the finished floor. If it doesn't, that's yr first problem.

    Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but it seems like yr horn is just too long. The horn doesn't need to bottom out in the flange, just project into it. Is it possible to cut the horn down so it breaks the plane of the flange without bottoming out in it? Perhaps it's meant to be trimmed. The wax would provide the seal. I'm no pro, though, so verify b4 going by me.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2006
  5. PM5K

    PM5K New Member

    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    This is what it looks like.

    I just don't know if it should sit that way or not, I realize that it would normally have wax on it so maybe it shouldn't sit flush to the flange, I'm not really sure.

    All I know is that the bowl fit fine without the ring as a test fit, and once on I couldn't get the bowl to sit flush with the floor. I tested this same black piece (horn?) in the picture with another flange at a local home improvement store and it dropped right in.

    [​IMG]
  6. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Central Florida
    How about a picture looking down into the hole without the black thing in the way?
  7. PM5K

    PM5K New Member

    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
  8. plumber1

    plumber1 Plumber

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Florida
    You don't want that silly funnel. Just use a regular setting seal (wax ring).
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,893
    Location:
    New England
    It wouldn't hurt if you put a couple more screws into the flange, too. Keep in mind that that is what holds the toilet to the floor...the bolts go in the flange and those hold the toilet, but if the flange isn't firmly supported to the subfloor....
  10. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Central Florida
    My guess is the funnel is bottoming out on the pipe sticking up into the flange. I guess this is normal, since the pros haven't commented on it, but I sure don't like that rough transition -- it just looks like a great place for a clog to form.
  11. PM5K

    PM5K New Member

    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    What's happening is that the tapered part of the horn (?) is too wide for the tapered part of the flange.

    It's not bottoming out on the sleeve, the sleeve actually fits inside the pipe.

    I didn't install this particular flange but I will add the additional screws, I'm not sure why they were omitted...
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2006
  12. OldPete

    OldPete DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    NJ
    I have a question... is it OK that the flange in that picture sticks up above the tile? I'll assume the tile is the finished floor.

    ?
  13. plumber1

    plumber1 Plumber

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Florida
    It looks like it sits on the finnished floor which is the way I would do mine.
  14. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,893
    Location:
    New England
    A flange SHOULD sit on top of the finished floor, and be fastened through the floor into the subflooring. There should be no 'air' under the flange...it must sit ON the floor, not above it, or the toilet probably won't fit and won't be able to be anchored very well, if at all.

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