48K 700SXT Fleck programming

[Jon B]

My drain pipe size is 1/2". The manual said something about back flow on the drain could cause trouble. The line is well over 20' and drains in the laundry room and I can hear it draining fine. I'll check what you guys are saying. Thanks for the input!

 

[Reach4]

The manual said something about back flow on the drain could cause trouble.

I suspect that had to do with motivating you to have an air gap rather than a factor that would affect softening performance.

The line is well over 20' and drains in the laundry room and I can hear it draining fine.

200' is well over 20' too. Are you are talking 25 or 30 ft maybe?

You can hear it draining? Can you see and maybe run that line temporarily into a container?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jon B]

The riser that came with the system when I put it together went all the way to the bottom of the tank.

 

[Jon B]

I suspect that had to do with motivating you to have an air gap rather than a factor that would affect softening performance.


200' is well over 20' too. Are you are talking 25 or 30 ft maybe?

You can hear it draining? Can you see and maybe run that line temporarily into a container?

I would say it's about 50-60'. I could disconnect the drain line right by the softener. I have a clear hose that connects to the pvc at the softener.

 

[Reach4]

I would say it's about 50-60'. I could disconnect the drain line right by the softener. I have a clear hose that connects to the pvc at the softener.

You could measure the flow rate at the output at the laundry tub during backwash, and compare that to the DLFC value. If you are getting the full backwash, I figure your existing drain line is OK. Disconnecting at the softener would be good at checking the DLFC, but the output of the drain line will be a better measure of what is really being used for backwash.

 

[Bannerman]

Assuming your 1.5 cuft resin tank is 10" diameter, the maximum flow rate to drain will be 2.4 gpm as governed by the DLFC button. The flow rate during the initial stage of brine draw is likely to be 0.83 gpm assuming a #1 White injector was installed. While these do not seem to be high flow rates, any restriction in the drain line can reduce the flow so that those rates may not be achieved. Although the barbed drain fitting at the softener may only be 1/2", when the drain run is longer than 20', it is usually advisable to increase the drain tube size to 3/4" to reduce the frictional restriction within the drain line run.

So far, it has not been established that brine is being drawn down to the air check valve in the brine tank, within the first 15 minutes of the 60 minute brine draw cycle. That should be observed and verified. If brine is not being all drawn from the brine tank within that time, that could be indicative of a restricted drain or other issue such as a partially clogged injector or screen.

The riser that came with the system when I put it together went all the way to the bottom of the tank.

The riser issue that Dittohead mentioned in post #20, is in regards to an incorrect riser diameter or missing/damaged 'O' ring where the riser connects to the valve. A leak at that connection will permit hard water to leak to the softener outlet, thereby permitting hard water to mix with the softened water coming up the riser from the bottom of the tank. As mentioned, the supplier may have included an incorrect riser or 'O' ring. A few months ago, another poster had experienced similar hardness issues which he later learned, an incorrect riser had been installed by the supplier.

As Dittohead stated, one method to test for an upper riser leak without removing the control head is to taste the drain water to determine if it taste salty almost immediately after initiating the BD cycle. Since brine enters at the top of the resin tank, an upper riser leak will permit brine to flow to the drain almost immediately.

I could disconnect the drain line right by the softener.

Measuring the flow rate directly at the softener will not account for a restriction within the actual drain line.

 

[Jon B]

Thank you guys for your input!

 

[ditttohead]

The fitting on the 7000 is 3/4" and since the cost of running 100' of 3/4" pvc is about $15, there really is no reason to reduce the pipe size. Soft flexible tubing is not recommended for softener drains as it kinks easily.

The riser tube on the 7000 is either 1.05" (same as 3/4" PVC pipe size) or 32 mm. If the riser in the valve is 32 mm and your riser pipe is 1.05", you will get considerable hardness leakage and intermittent salty water is also common. The 32mm x 1.05" adapter should lock into the valve, it should not be easily removed. This component was recently redesigned, it now twist locks in, older ones were not removable. If it simply pulls out, then it is installed incorrectly. I am working on a short tutorial video on this component. Maybe later this week I will post it.

 

[Jon B]

The fitting on the 7000 is 3/4" and since the cost of running 100' of 3/4" pvc is about $15, there really is no reason to reduce the pipe size. Soft flexible tubing is not recommended for softener drains as it kinks easily.

The riser tube on the 7000 is either 1.05" (same as 3/4" PVC pipe size) or 32 mm. If the riser in the valve is 32 mm and your riser pipe is 1.05", you will get considerable hardness leakage and intermittent salty water is also common. The 32mm x 1.05" adapter should lock into the valve, it should not be easily removed. This component was recently redesigned, it now twist locks in, older ones were not removable. If it simply pulls out, then it is installed incorrectly. I am working on a short tutorial video on this component. Maybe later this week I will post it.

Thanks! That video would be great!

 

[Jon B]

I just had someone come out and check my system and the changed the hardness setting. Which I don't believe will help. They put it at 24 from 18. I pulled the drain line off and tasted the water for the first few minutes and it tasted just a bit salty. I looked at the parts diagram and I don't have parts 18 through 20 on the diagram for the distributor tube connection to the head. I new more about the system then the two guys I had come out and check it out, thanks to you guys. They said if that didn't fix it in a week that I could call them back and they would pull the head off and look. I thought they should of done that on this visit!

 

[Jon B]

I apologize for not getting back but today is my start of the weekend. I just noticed now that when in the Brine draw cycle it's not fully emptying the brine tank of water as well. The BD setting is set at 60 minutes. I thought it was supposed to empty it.

 

[Reach4]

I apologize for not getting back but today is my start of the weekend. I just noticed now that when in the Brine draw cycle it's not fully emptying the brine tank of water as well. The BD setting is set at 60 minutes. I thought it was supposed to empty it.

It should empty the brine in about the first 15 minutes of the cycle.

Wrong injector? clogged injector? Air leak that is small enough to not leak a lot of liquid during brine fill? So much back-pressure in the drain line that the venturi of the injector cannot suck enough?

With 4 gallons of water, you make 4.62 gallons of brine. To suck that out in 15 minutes, you would want about 0.31 gpm of brine draw. That would be between the
#0 Injector - Red 0.25 gpm
#1 Injector - White 0.35 gpm

If you had red, you would perhaps want a longer brine draw. Even if you had
#00 Injector - Violet, that should suck 0.17 GPM. So the wrong injector would not, by itself, explain the symptoms. But while you are getting things checked, it would be useful to check the injector color.

 

[Jon B]

It should empty the brine in about the first 15 minutes of the cycle.

Wrong injector? clogged injector? Air leak that is small enough to not leak a lot of liquid during brine fill? So much back-pressure in the drain line that the venturi of the injector cannot suck enough?

With 4 gallons of water, you make 4.62 gallons of brine. To suck that out in 15 minutes, you would want about 0.31 gpm of brine draw. That would be between the
#0 Injector - Red 0.25 gpm
#1 Injector - White 0.35 gpm

If you had red, you would perhaps want a longer brine draw. Even if you had
#00 Injector - Violet, that should suck 0.17 GPM. So the wrong injector would not, by itself, explain the symptoms. But while you are getting things checked, it would be useful to check the injector color.

The sticker on the back says INJECTOR: 00
Should I up the BD setting? Would a leak at the distribulator tube where it connects to the valve also cause this?

 

[Reach4]

The sticker on the back says INJECTOR: 00
Should I up the BD setting?

I think 75 minutes if things are correct otherwise. Things are not correct otherwise. So to work around things, I might try 120 minute. But really I think you should measure the flow at the output of the brine line. Or maybe just go ahead and put in a bigger brine line. It is not going to hurt and pending the test results will probably be necessary.

Did you measure the flow rate during brine fill?

Did you measure the flow rate out of the drain line during backwash?

You can add measuring the output of the drain line before the brine is gone to the to-do list. With #00 injector, the expected flow is about 0.50 gpm. That is the sum of the brine flow plus the water consumed to generate the vacuum.

 

[Jon B]

I think 75 minutes if things are correct otherwise. Things are not correct otherwise. So to work around things, I might try 120 minute. But really I think you should measure the flow at the output of the brine line. Or maybe just go ahead and put in a bigger brine line. It is not going to hurt and pending the test results will probably be necessary.

Did you measure the flow rate during brine fill?

Did you measure the flow rate out of the drain line during backwash?

You can add measuring the output of the drain line before the brine is gone to the to-do list. With #00 injector, the expected flow is about 0.50 gpm. That is the sum of the brine flow plus the water consumed to generate the vacuum.

I still need to do those measurements. I will let you know.
Thanks!!

 

[Reach4]

I still need to do those measurements. I will let you know.

If you have a suitable scale, such as a package scale, you could weigh the increase in weight for your container instead of using measuring cups.

 

[ditttohead]

When you say it does not completely empty, this is normal. There will usually be about 2-3 inches of water in the bottom of the brine tank after regeneration. You should put the system into brine draw and watch/listen for the how long it takes to remove the brine from the tank. The system will make a noticeable change in the sound once the water is removed and the air check in the brine tank seats. Once you know the timing, simply quadruple it for the brine draw cycle. From a technical standpoint, smaller injectors are more efficient and a very slight gain in system capacity can be measured when slower brine rates are used. Most companies don't bother with these extended draw times because the increase is very minimal and rarely ever calculated into the systems capacity.

The brine line must have no leaks, even the smallest leak will cause problems. It is like trying to suck soda through a straw with a crack in it.

 

[ditttohead]

Here is the riser video, hope it helps some people!