4 wire range to 3 wire receptacle

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by Jacob Robinson, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. Jacob Robinson

    Jacob Robinson New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Dayton, OH
    I just got a hand me down Maytag range from a co-worker, model MER5765RAS. It came with a 4-wire cord, so I assume I can just wire the 3-wire cord from my old range to the new Maytag, with that said do I need to put a jumper from the neutral terminal to the chassis ground on the range, or just leave the chassis ground un-connected.
  2. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,531
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Yes .
  3. Chad Schloss

    Chad Schloss Member

    Messages:
    329
    Location:
    USA
    Hey JW, what if the range (or electric dryer) was fed from a subpanel? I had an inspector tell me once that I had to have that jumper (bond) removed at the appliance, which was an electric dryer. I had it fed from a generac standby panel. I would think that if it was fed from a subpanel you would keep them separate, correct?
  4. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,531
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Good question. In order to have a three wire receptacle for a range or dryer the branch circuit MUST ORIGINATE in the service panel. The use of a 3 wire receptacle is for existing installations only and cannot be installed new. If the appliance is supplied from a remote panel then a 4 wire receptacle MUST be installed
  5. DonL

    DonL Out of the Trades

    Messages:
    3,909
    Location:
    Houston, TX

    That Range has three connections and the Neutral should already be connected to ground.

    You can verify that with your ohm meter.
  6. jbfan74

    jbfan74 Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    131
    Location:
    Newnan, GA
    If it was used on a 4 wire circuit, then the bond would have been removed.
  7. Chad Schloss

    Chad Schloss Member

    Messages:
    329
    Location:
    USA
    what had happened is I had 10/3 feeding a 3 wire dryer outlet, and the dryer obviously had 3 wire plug attached. The ground wire was unused but attached to the metal box mounted on the concrete wall. I added a separate ground wire (green 10 ga i think) from the dryer ground lug to the box. I was selling the house and didn't want to buy anything else for it is why I had that there. The inspector said it was ok so I left it like that. He did say that I should have removed the ground bond from the dryer frame connecting to the neutral (if i remember correctly) and I asked why. He said because of paralell paths back to the panel. I should have just installed the 4 prong cord & receptacle.
  8. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,531
    Location:
    North Carolina
    That inspector was wrong in saying that the installation was alright. If you ran 10/3 with ground then you should have installed a four wire receptacle and removed the bonding jumper in the dryer.

    The equipment grounding conductor is required to be installed in the same cable or raceway as all the other conductors so the green wire you installed is a violation also. This must have been a home inspector doing an inspection for the buyer.
  9. DonL

    DonL Out of the Trades

    Messages:
    3,909
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I agree, But Would and Should may be an assumption.

    Unless the range was modified , the Neutral is connected to ground inside of the range.

    That range was made for a 3 wire plug, If it has a 4 wire plug then it could be modified, Against the Manufacture instructions.

    The ground wire will normally go to Neutral at the service entrance, so unless the Neutral wire breaks, it is no big deal.


    Please Correct me if I am wrong. Old Dogs can learn new tricks...
  10. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,531
    Location:
    North Carolina


    The installation instructions on every range and dryer manufactured today will state to remove the bonding jumper in the dryer when a 4 wire receptacle is used. This coincides with what is mandated in 250.142 of the NEC. These instructions are included in the UL Standard used to manufacture the appliance

    The NEC will mandate that any new circuit installed for a range or dryer be made with a 4 conductor circuit.
    By exception an existing 3 wire circuit can remain as long as it originates in the service equipment and if NM-B cable it must have an insulated white conductor or if it is SE cable the neutral is allowed to be bare.
  11. DonL

    DonL Out of the Trades

    Messages:
    3,909
    Location:
    Houston, TX

    I agree.


    That Range was manufactured a Minuit ago...
  12. Chad Schloss

    Chad Schloss Member

    Messages:
    329
    Location:
    USA
    It was an inspector for the new buyer, but at at an earlier time when I installed the standby generator, I asked him (the county electrical inspector) if this was ok, he said it was, so I just ran with it. Out here, they have gone through changes and budget cuts. We used to have separate inspectors for electrical / mechanical / plumbing, but now have all-in-one type people. I know that no one knows everything about every trade, so I didn't know at the time if it was correct or not. I know now though :)
  13. DonL

    DonL Out of the Trades

    Messages:
    3,909
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Chad,

    When You need to Modify OLD equipment to meet New code, You are just wasting your time, and money.

    It becomes no safer, Works NO better.

    I see it as a waste of copper...


    If all homes were inspected and installed to code, You would Never Buy or Sell a house.


    Code is a good place to start. But may Not always be the safest way to go.
  14. Chad Schloss

    Chad Schloss Member

    Messages:
    329
    Location:
    USA
    this washer/dryer wasn't that old as it was from 2001;it had an option to wire it 3 wire or 4 wire. i tried to make it a bit 'safer' by adding a ground. this is when I first started getting into home wiring. I havea pretty good background in dc electronics but was pretty green on ac stuff.
  15. DonL

    DonL Out of the Trades

    Messages:
    3,909
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    If you get a new one to last 10 years, You are doing good. May never happen.


    The new ones are designed to last, Just as long as the warranty.


    Good for manufactures, bad for consumers. Very sorry but true.


    MTBF is very calculatable. (New word...)
  16. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,531
    Location:
    North Carolina
    There is no modification needed on dryers and ranges. It is written in the instruction sheet how to connect the different cords.
    This has been a code mandate way back is not new.
  17. Jacob Robinson

    Jacob Robinson New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Dayton, OH

    So if there is continuity between the neutral terminal and the chassis ground, then I DO NOT need to add a jumper. Is this correct?
  18. DonL

    DonL Out of the Trades

    Messages:
    3,909
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    That is correct. It should be built into the Terminal Block.
  19. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    991
    Location:
    NY State, USA
    I cannot remember the last time I saw a new range without an obvious removable N-G bonding jumper. In fact I can't remember ever seeing one without.

    Removing that jumper is certainly NOT a "modification". A 4-wire cord has always been required for mobile homes, and they've been around a LONG time.
  20. DonL

    DonL Out of the Trades

    Messages:
    3,909
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I understand.

    If the wire feeding the Appliance is three conductor and you DO remove the N-G bonding then You would probably smoke anything that uses the 120V, Oven Light, ETC. Plus you would not have any Ground.

    Why would you want to remove the Jumper ???

    That Range is made to operate Using 3 current carrying Wires. The neutral needs to stay connected.
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