3 Systems Quoted - Need some help getting best choice!

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by GRAHAM WA WELL WATER, Jun 13, 2013.

  1. GRAHAM WA WELL WATER

    GRAHAM WA WELL WATER New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Graham, WA.
    Hello, and thank you for all the wonderful information and help from everyone.

    I have a Kinetico water softener system that has worked less and less effectively since the moment I moved into our home 3 years ago. They have never once gotten it working after coming out twice and last time wanted us to by new resin tanks for only $1500 + some new valves and other equipment. I haven't used a bag of salt in 2 years out of 3 - so we are done with that company.

    Currently I have very smelly water (both hot and cold), and the stains in the toilet and tubs are so bad. I have effectively cut out all white from my wardrobe because it stains my clothes after 1 wash. I did the slime test and it feels slimy to me, and if we let the toilet go a long time, it starts to build almost an algae-like orange residue. I've HAD IT!

    We recently have received 3 different bids, but they all have different components, recommendations, and all have pros and cons.

    The first is:

    No new pressure tank (ours is small, not standard size) ---> 1 Micron Filter ---> New Softener ---> KDF Filter ---> House (We have an under sink RO filter).

    Second idea:

    New Pressure Tank 85 gallon ---> Chlorine Injector ---> Greensand Filter 2 cubic ft ---> New Softener ---> Carbon Filter ---> House

    Third idea:

    New Pressure Tank ---> Cascadian 10 IronMax Filter ---> New Softener ---> House

    The following results were given by 1 company, but we have heard differently (of course) from the other 2.

    PH=7.26 (we've been told from 7.0 - 7.2)
    Tannin=0.0 ppm (0.095)
    Hardness=13
    Iron=4.32 (the other 2 companies say it is closer to 2.5 ppm)
    Manganese=0.0 ppm (0.2 was another number…)
    TDS=50
  2. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,836
    Location:
    Ontario California
    For starters, you need to get a good test done. Your numbers do not make any sense. 13 grains... a grain = 17.1 ppm, so your minimum TDS would be closer to 225 PPM, not 50.

    Iron bacteria, high hardness, etc.

    A common way of treating this is with a chlorine injection system, a properly sized contact tank, A GAC tank, and a softener. This is only a guess without a proper water test.
  3. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    Using a 1 micron is not a good idea. It is desized for smalll drinking water systems and not the whole house. KDF media has a tendency to cause problems. Greensand is a heavy media requiring good flow rates for proper backwash. If you do not have the proper flow rate, the media will foul and you are back to the same water. I to recommend chlorination, retention tank, carbon and soften last.
  4. GRAHAM WA WELL WATER

    GRAHAM WA WELL WATER New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Graham, WA.
    Iron: 2.03 Mg/l
    Manganese: 0.095 mg/l
    pH: 7.2
    Hardness: 5.0 GPG
    TDS: 126.0 mg/l
    Hydrogen Sulfide: detected,
    Appearance: slight yellow,
    Tannins: 0.90 mg/l

    So above is the most recent numbers (gotta love these guys)!

    Anywho, this is the favorite so far as this quote includes the new pressure tank, chlorine injection (no contact tank - which I am asking why about), greensand filtration (I am asking about the flow rates), a carbon filter, and then a softener. Totals about $4700.

    Any last suggestions or things to think about before we make our choice? Lemme know - and thank you very much for the replies!
  5. MagKarl

    MagKarl New Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Washington
    I have similar water to you, iron, likely some slime causing bacteria, relatively low hardness, and hydrogen sulfide.

    I started with softener. That cured a good bit of the odor and took care of the staining, but still had the swampy smell.

    Then I added catalytic carbon. That made it pretty much perfect. No taste or smell for ~6 months. Then the swampy smell and taste returned. I believe the carbon was eventually slimed up by bacteria.

    Then I added chlorine injection and retention, followed by the carbon and lastly the softener. This appears to be working great, but it's only been a couple weeks.

    I bought all my stuff off the internet and plumbed it myself. I'd estimate I have about $3000 in materials.
  6. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Central Florida
    The most common approach here (only 2,533 miles from you) is what Dittohead recommended and MagKarl eventually got to. The added benefit of chlorine is your wife will understand the disinfection aspect of it and appreciate it. Clorox is cheap, works great, and is WQA Gold-certified as a drinking water treatment chemical under NSF/ANSI 60 (http://12.2.248.199/goldseal/detail4.cfm?tableDefID=6&companyID=6123). You will probably need to flush and sterilize your home plumbing before putting the new system into service, to get rid of the accumulated iron bacteria.
  7. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,836
    Location:
    Ontario California
    The tannins will not be treated and are probably responsible for the tea colored water. In general, it can be ignored. Removal of Tannins is as simple as a "softener" type of system that has a anion resin that is engineered to treat Tannins specifically. Most people just live with it, rather than treat it if the color is slight. A simple RO at your kitchen sink will take care of the rest.
  8. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Central Florida
    The chlorine-GAC combination will also remove tannins.
  9. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,836
    Location:
    Ontario California
    I agree that chlorine/GAC can remove tannins, but I always recommend a quick pilot test first to confirm that the type of tannin you are experiencing can be effectively treated with this process. Even a "jar" test is a good indicator. In some regions, the Tannin removal through Oxidation/absorption does not work too effectively, in other areas, it works better than Anion exchange. Check out this article for a very good explanation of Tannin removal. http://www.wwdmag.com/tannin-removal
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