2 minutes to get hot water to kitchen sink

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dasher

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I recently had a remodel moving the sink further from the hot water heater (Tank style) . The run is now much longer than the 10 feet or so the sink moved. I wish to get hot water to sink and dishwasher (co-located) much quicker to avoid waste and time. Is a small tankless heater near the sink the answer? Or, I've heard of recirculation pumps etc. If a tankless heater is the the best choice, What size? (I will keep my tank heater) The water lines are all indoor or in heated crawlspace from Hot water heater (tank). I presume a small one since I only want instant hot water for a short time. It would need to be electric. The lines are primarily the red and blue plastic type for the new section. Thanks for your advice.
 

dasher

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Reach4

Thanks. But I'm really looking for it to come out of the faucet quicker for general stuff such as washing hands, cleaning etc. Also I want the dishwasher to have hot water quicker in its cycles. They are edt o each other and the dw taps off the hot line going on o a Kitchen sink.
 
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They made a solution for this already.

Canada is known for long wait times for hot water from the tap. This is because the long lengths of coppers are always cold and work as heatsinks to actively cool down hot water passing thru them. Hot water from the water tank has to heat up the coppers first before finally getting hot water to the tap.

Search for the Watts Instant Hot Water Recirculating System.
 

Jadnashua

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There are lots of companies that make recirculation systems. If you do not have, or cannot add a dedicated return line, all of the systems can utilize the cold water line for that, but in the process, will warm up that line, so you may need to use some cold water before it is as cold as possible. Most systems have a thermostatically controlled valve when you use the cold water as return and that limits hot it gets, but it only then has warm near, but hot close, limiting how much you need.

Another option would be a small tank-type heater under the sink. If it is big enough to provide hot until hot actually arrives without diluting the whole tank, you should be fine.
 

dasher

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Thanks Standard and Jad...

How much is involved with a return line and recirc pump? Is it just routing a line? I have plenty of room for that. Could it attach to the bottom of this?
IMG_7845.JPG
This is my distribution point for the remodel. It goes to Kitchen sink, Maybe a 20 foot run from here. and a powder room and Clothes washer.
 

MikeQ

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Thanks Standard and Jad...

How much is involved with a return line and recirc pump? Is it just routing a line? I have plenty of room for that. Could it attach to the bottom of this?
View attachment 32160
This is my distribution point for the remodel. It goes to Kitchen sink, Maybe a 20 foot run from here. and a powder room and Clothes washer.

It looks like your hot and cold water run side by side in the same manifold? That doesn't help getting speedy hot water to the tap due to heat transfer between the h and c. And the lines are not insulated?
 

dasher

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It looks like your hot and cold water run side by side in the same manifold? That doesn't help getting speedy hot water to the tap due to heat transfer between the h and c. And the lines are not insulated?
I'm not sure. I will have to look more closely at how it works. I've never looked close. It is in a crawlspace. I also was told insulating the lines doesnt really do much. I was suprised at that.
 

Smooky

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If the water has cooled off in the hot water lines, you have to run it until you purge all of the cooled off water out of the line. The plastic type pipes usually retain the heat longer. If the space is in a protected area/ not too cold insulation probably would not make too much difference. The size of the pipe can make a big difference. There is less water to purge in a smaller pipe. If the Manabloc manifold is very close to the hot water heater running a loop from the manifold to the heater may not make much difference. Since there are individual pipes running from the manifold to each fixture it is not easy to incorporate a recirculation loop that will work for all hot water using fixtures. It could be done for an individual fixture relatively easy but in that case adding a small hot water heater, under the sink, in the hot water line would be about the same result.
 

Cacher_Chick

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If you have a 3/4 trunk line that feeds a branch for the kitchen, there is a lot of water in the pipe to run down the drain before you get hot water from the heater. (A foot of 3/4" pipe holds over twice the water of a foot of 1/2" pipe)
If the crawlspace is easily accessible and heated, it would cost almost nothing for you to home run a smaller i.d. hot water line from near the heater to the kitchen, which would made a very notable difference.
 

Jadnashua

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If you put a T underneath the kitchen sink's hot line, add a check valve so you aren't trying to pull water through your newly added recirculation line, and run a new line back to the manifold with a pump on it, it will keep hot water at the kitchen, or at least the same temp as at the manifold. If that gets cold, or is far from the WH, you'd need to run the recirc line back to the hot outlet of the WH. That would bring hot to the manifold for other branches, so they should get hot quicker as well. Most of the engineered systems can be configured with a timer so it only runs when you think you'll need it, and they often contain an aquastat to shut the pump down, or shut a valve to stop the water circulation once hot water is detected at the destination. WHile pex doesn't conduct heat anywhere near as much as copper, insulation still can help, especially if you're going to run recirculation.

There must be at least a half dozen systems that contain the pump, and the control devices. Lang, RedyTemp, Grundfos, Taco, and others make them. They tend to be a little bit of money because the pump, being on potable water, must be either bronze or SS to keep from corroding or leaching unwanted metals into the water supply.
 
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