2 Houses, 2 Pressure Tanks, 1 pump, 1 controller, 1 pressure switch pro help needed!

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by betaman, May 2, 2008.

  1. betaman

    betaman New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Connecting Second Pressure Tank to Second House Setup Help Needed

    Hi,

    I'm trying to figure out how to connect a remote pressure tank into my current system. I've read these forums twice and I think I'm close to understanding how this should be done but need confirmation...

    My current plan is to tee the pvc 3' from the well cap and run 1 1/4" pvc from there to supply the new house pressure tank using the existing pump control and pressure switch located in the pump house.

    By reading these forums, if I understand correctly, the current pump controller and pressure switch will pressurize the new pressure tank but it might take a couple of cycles to get both tanks equalized. It's also been mentioned that both tanks need to be running about 5psi less than the cut in rate which we run 40/60. That means I'd want both tanks pressurized to 35 psi?

    The garage was rough plumbed for a pressure tank and the rough electrical for pump control and the pressure switch. I was told by my contractor that I would likely need an electrician to wire in a second pump control, pressure switch and cut off switch for the pump at the new house, but another person told me to tee off at the cap and just add a tank like in my drawing below.

    As for parts to plumb the second pressure tank into my existing setup do I just need to pickup something like this pressure tank tee kitlink and take out and cap off the pressure switch?


    My pump: 2HP submersible
    My pump control: 2HP pump control
    My pressure switch: 40/60
    My pressure tanks: 2 x 85 gallon pressure tanks (approx water capacity 37-50 gal)
    Well Depth: 70'
    Distance from Well Cap to New Home: 66'


    Thanks for your help!!

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 3, 2008
  2. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    You won't need another anything. Just the pipe from the well to the new house. Use large enough pipe to eradicate any friction loss and your good to go. You might want to look into a Cycle Stop Valve though. That would make things a lot smoother.

    Why a two horse pump? Is the well real deep with a low water level? Were you thinking you would need that big of a pump for two houses?

    The only reason I can think that you might need another tank is to keep the pump from cycling too much with that large of a pump if the well is relatively shallow. The CSV will take care of that problem too.

    bob...
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2011
  3. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I would not use PEX, I would use PE IPS (iron pipe size, which maintains the ID) pipe, it has a true 1" ID, PEX doesn't because it is CTS (copper tubing size, which maintains the OD and gives you a smaller ID).

    Both pressure tanks will fill equally when the pump runs but, without a check valve between the tee to house #2 and the pressure tank in house #1, the water flow from the well to house #1 must/will change direction of flow 180* to feed house #2 (when they use water) from the house #1 pressure tank; and without a check valve on the house #2 line, the same flow direction from house #2 when house #1 uses water. Then the pump comes on and changes the flow direction into each tank and that causes water hammer (on both lines) that can damage pipe, appliances etc. and it isn't good for the pump either.

    The best would be to take a line from the outlet of the pressure tank in house #1 to house #2, then there is no change of flow direction or water hammer.
  4. betaman

    betaman New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Thank you for replying!

    Ok, so you're saying I don't need anything but to tee off the line going out from the well cap and a cycle stop valve. That well line will have enough pressure using the existing pressure tank even though the line is not attached after the pressure tank?

    Can the cycle stop valve just be buried in the ground or would it need to be inside a box or some kind and then buried?

    I'm not sure why there is a 2hp pump, it was installed before I moved to this place. The well is only 60-70 feet deep and we've never ran out of water since living here. House #1 is temporary though and will be moved out once we get into the new house.

    I'm open for anything because I'm not 100% sure what to do since everyone locally says my setup is unique.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2011
  5. betaman

    betaman New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Thanks for your reply!

    The plumber installed pex per the contractors request I think, as I never had a say in that matter.

    I think I understand -- when I put in the tee to house #2 also install a check valve between house #1 and the new tee that will feed house #2. I'd also need to install a pressure tank in house #2..

    I originally had a plan to run from the outlet of the pressure tank #1 to house #2 but it's impossible because of space, it has to go under electrical, septic, and phone lines. Behind house #1 is only about 5 feet to the property line and the backhoe wasn't able to get in there.

    House #1 is only temporary and is being pulled out -- which is why my contractor said to wire up the pump control, the pressure switch, and a cut off switch so when house #1 is gone turn off the line or cap it off.

    My friend who works at a large winery said they recently connected up multiple remote pressure tanks via a manifold. He was the one who gave me the drawing below for connecting this up but I figured I'm come to the pros here.

    I'm willing to connect it up anyway possible, I'm just not sure what is the best way for my circumstances and due to the fact house #1 will be removed.

    I'm also not sure if I should go ahead and also run conduit to the pump from house #2 while the trench is open or if i should just use the existing pump wiring that's located in the pump house...

    I can also provide pictures of anything if anyone needs to see them if it would help.

    Thank you!
    Last edited: May 3, 2008
  6. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,473
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Pressure comes from the pump, not the tank. You don't need another pressure tank, and you need to keep the pressure switch and controls close to the existing tank. As long as your pipe is large enough, you won't loose any pressure going to the second house (as Gary said), and another tank further down the line won't help. Another tank would only decrease the cycling by 50%. Cycling is not really a problem when the water is just used for the house.

    If you have long term uses for water such as a heat pump or irrigation (even a garden hose), cutting the cycling by 50% is not enough. That is where a Cycle Stop Valve would be useful. For just the house, the CSV would only serve to keep the pressure constant for showers, instead of the usual swings from high to low pressure that can be aggravating for the person in the shower. For irrigation or heat pumps the CSV can cut cycling by 2/3 rds, which will increase the life of the pump, motor, tank, switches, and controls buy 300%.

    Your friend at the winery needed a CSV in the worst way. You can't have enough tanks to do what the CSV will do in applications like that. You don't need another tank, and even the winery could be running on only one tank if they had a CSV. And yes some models of the CSV can just be buried in the dirt.
  7. betaman

    betaman New Member

    Messages:
    6
    I thought a second tank would be required because the existing pressure tank's outgoing line can only feed house #1 and not the new house (house #2). All lines are 1 1/4" pvc except the new house is 1" pex.

    My new plan is to tee off the line leaving the well cap that feeds the pressure tank, attach a cycle stop valve and connect the other end to house #2. That's it? Sheesh, that's even easier than I had thought!

    House #1 will be moved off the property when we can move into house #2 -- now that leaves the line outgoing from the pressure tank that feeds house #1 and it will just need to be capped and the pressure tank will still serve my new house through the well feed line?

    We don't use the well for irrigating because we have irrigation, and our use of the outside spigots is limited to the times we have no irrigation, so it's a non-factor. I've never had a high - low pressure problem even when flushing the toilet and the shower going, etc. We do have a new electric heat pump, but house #1 has an electric heat pump and has caused no problems either during use.

    Thanks, I'm not going to add another pressure tank just a CSV to my setup between the pressure tank of house #1 and before the tee of house #2, I'm still not 100% understanding about not having a connection to the pressure tanks outgoing line anywhere after I pull out home #1. I guess, I didn't realize that you didn't have to have a connection to the outgoing line for the pressure tank to function. Below is a new diagram of the my setup per all of your help/instructions!! :)

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 3, 2008
  8. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,473
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    You said 85 gallon pressure tank so, that made us think it is a bladder tank. A bladder tank only has one opening. Water goes in and comes back out the same line. So yes you should be able to just cap the line going to house #1. Also yes you just tie the lines together at house #2. If you decide to use a CSV, it should go before you tee off to the Pex for house #2. If there are any check valves above the well, you will need to remove them.
  9. betaman

    betaman New Member

    Messages:
    6
    You sure know this stuff inside and out! Thanks so much for your help, you've saved me a lot of money. :)

    I just went out and reinspected the pressure tank and it has only one opening. The well line coming into the pump house has a tee on it that feeds the filter sitting between two on/off valves before that that line goes back out to house #1.

    I did not see a check valve anywhere in the pump house.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 3, 2008
  10. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,473
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Any filters will also have to be installed before the Pex tees off to the new house but, just after the CSV. Pump, CSV, filter, tee with one side going to new house and other side going to pressure tank, would be the correct order.
  11. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,473
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    You could also use the filter to tie the lines together at the new house. The water to the tank will no longer need to be filtered when you cap off house #1.
  12. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Capping off water lines is not a good idea because of water quality issues because it causes a dead end and stagnant water that can not be sanitized.

    If this were mine, I'd install a new pitless adapter in the well pointing toward the new house and take the PEX out and put 1" 160 or 200 psi rated (it depends on how deep it has to go) PE pipe all the way in to where I would be installing my pressure tank in the new house (or if it will be out at the well, form it to the house). Plumbers really shouldn't be doing well water lines unless they work on wells including pulling pumps from any depth. Pump guys and well drillers are the best choice.

    I would leave the excavation at the well open and when I moved into the new house, I would cut off the old house pipe at the well and cap the line. That is if the new house is more than 90* off from the direction of the old pitless. If within 90*, I'd tee into the existing line for now and redo the new PE line to the pitless when I moved in the new house. Of course two pitless adapters requires putting the new one in so the old one doesn't interfere with pulling the pump out in the future. Removing the drop pipe part from the old one should be sufficient for clearance IF you have a 6" well; 5" or less you'll have to remove the old pitless from the casing and close the hole.

    The above is if you are not going to use water in the pump house. If that goes with the old house, then I would abandon the line at the well as I said above.
  13. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,473
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    I would also prefer to move the pressure tank to the new house. However, replacing the power wires to the well could be expensive so, I would probably leave them where they are. Of course I would cap the line to house #1 as close to the tank as possible. You don't want 2' or 5' of pipe that dead ends with a cap, letting water get stale. Replacing the pitless could also be expensive so I wouldn't worry about the direction, especially if it is already connected to both lines. If I were installing everything new, I would do as Gary suggested. Since everything already exist, I would not change anything that I didn't have to.
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