2.5 iron softener suggestions

[jjk454ss]

ive been to a local professional who sells units around $1800, they tested my water for me and said that a softener from a big box store is going to struggle with my issues. I was told my water is 18 grains per gallon hardness and 2.5 parts iron. It's only me in the house. According to the calculator linked from these forums I only need 13440 capacity per week.

Specifically he told me the iron was too high. Now I can't afford to spend a couple thousand dollars, is a $500 or $600 unit from Menard's going to work for me?

 

[ditttohead]

Not recommended. Using a softener for iron removal is not a good idea. Iron reduction systems should be considered. If you do use a softener it will be very wasteful and the it will probably not last too long. You will need to do high salting, frequent regenerations and intermittent t chemical cleaning.

1 ppm of iron uses a compensated hardness of 85 ppm. Obviously not the best design and companies that regularly do this are one of the reasons softener bans occur. Your iron level would be equal to 215 ppm of hardness.

There are many ways to do iron removal. Have you had any other water testing done?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[jjk454ss]

Not recommended. Using a softener for iron removal is not a good idea. Iron reduction systems should be considered. If you do use a softener it will be very wasteful and the it will probably not last too long. You will need to do high salting, frequent regenerations and intermittent t chemical cleaning.

1 ppm of iron uses a compensated hardness of 85 ppm. Obviously not the best design and companies that regularly do this are one of the reasons softener bans occur. Your iron level would be equal to 215 ppm of hardness.

There are many ways to do iron removal. Have you had any other water testing done?

Thanks for helping. I have not done other testing, just brought the sample to them and they told me iron content and hardness. Should I get a better test? I'm not sure where to even go besides them.

For iron removal, I assume you mean an iron filter? http://www.menards.com/main/plumbin...boss-iron-removal-system/p-1459987-c-8685.htm

I will do some research, but any recommendations?

 

[jjk454ss]

The shop is recommending a Echo ecr3000r30, I can't find much info on it. They are saying this will take care of everything. Is this a good recommendation?

 

[Bannerman]

If you do have 2.5 ppm Iron, that implies you use well water as virtually all municipal systems are chlorinated. Chlorine will oxidize clear iron so that it can be easily filtered out as rust using only a standard sediment filter.

While a water softener will remove clear iron, a softener is not the most efficient manner of iron removal, as Dittohead previously mentioned.

An online search for the Eco ecr3000r30, seems to suggest that unit is a cabinet style (all in one) water softener.

The iron removal system you linked to from Menards, may work, but would require a continual supply of 'pot perm' to oxidize the iron. A small chlorine feeder and contact tank maybe a simpler and more cost effective solution.

Since a sediment filter to remove rust particles would be needed regardless, it would be recommended to instead install a back washing carbon filter before the softener, which would remove the rust as well as the chlorine (and other contaminants). That way, your drinking and bath water is disinfected and the softener resin (and you) are not being continually exposed to the damaging effects of chlorine.

 

[ditttohead]

Bannermans suggestion is a great method for properly and efficiently removing iron and there are several other benefits.

A softener can remove massive amounts of iron, it is a simple cation exchange process, but the iron does not easily clean itself from the resin during regeneration, that is why high salt doses and frequent cleanings are necessary and why it is not recommended. The efficiency is very low with this treatment method. The all in one tank designs are miserable, don't bother.

 

[jjk454ss]

Thank you. Can someone point me to something online that would work? If I can see what you are referring to will give me a much better idea as I know nothing right now.

 

[_John_]

Quick explanation for why a softener isn't efficient for iron. They work entirely based on ion exchange and attraction to a negatively charged surface (zeolite in the old days, synthetic resin beads now). The attraction of the cations in solution goes something like Fe3+>Fe2+>Mg2+>Ca2+>K+>Na+>H+. So if you saturated the CEC with say sodium, any ion to the left of it in that series will replace it on the resin and kick Na+ off into solution.

Iron is inefficient on a softener because iron is so much more strongly held that it takes an even larger excess of Na+ ions (than Ca and Mg do) during regenerations to get the iron off the resin. Over time if enough salt is not used, you end up getting the capacity of the softener taken up near with iron and thus decreasing your softener capacity. This is why overuse of salt/more frequent regens is critical if you use a softener for iron removal.

Besides filtering iron, a backwashing filter also provides efficient sediment filtration. Oxidant injection/sediment filtration certainly does work, but for a lot of customers it adds more things to maintain (changing filter cartridges, keeping oxidant tank filled, maintaining an injection pump, etc.)than they may want to deal with. Oxidants do have the added benefit of sanitation of your water as it is used though, so there is a benefit that just the iron filter/softener by themselves won't give you. A lot of times a carbon filter will be added to get the chlorine back out after oxidation though which usually pushes the cost of this route above just the iron filter.

I happen to like Katalox Light as an iron filter media, but there are MANY ways to get 2.5 ppm iron out of your water.

 

[Reach4]

If you can come up with nearly $2000 roughly to get a 2-tank 2-controller system, that would be the better system.

Ditttohead and Gary Slusser have debated the merits of doing both softening and iron removal with just a softener-- budget maybe $600 or so plus $200 to 300 for installation.. It can be done. Gary recommends a monthly treatment with Super Iron Out. You would want to not oversize the softener, you would want to regen every 7 days or less, and would want to use 8 lb/cuft or more of salt.

I suggest that you search and find these discussions. While they can be heated, you can learn the relative merits and tradeoffs.

See http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/softeners/sizingchart.htm and also click through to the calculator link at the bottom.

 

[jjk454ss]

I'm wondering though, cost wise, is the Echo for $1200 withn10 year warranty the way to go? If they warranty it for 10 years anyway? How much would I be looking at for a separate iron filter and softener? Any links to something online that I can see what your referring to? Thanks

 

[jjk454ss]

Something like this?

Fusion Whole House Backwashing Filter For Iron, Sulfur, Arsenic, And Manganese - 10 GPM

 

[Reach4]

I thought Echo was a chainsaw. Click Inbox.

 

[jjk454ss]

If you can come up with nearly $2000 roughly to get a 2-tank 2-controller system, that would be the better system.

Ditttohead and Gary Slusser have debated the merits of doing both softening and iron removal with just a softener-- budget maybe $600 or so plus $200 to 300 for installation.. It can be done. Gary recommends a monthly treatment with Super Iron Out. You would want to not oversize the softener, you would want to regen every 7 days or less, and would want to use 8 lb/cuft or more of salt.

I suggest that you search and find these discussions. While they can be heated, you can learn the relative merits and tradeoffs.

See http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/softeners/sizingchart.htm and also click through to the calculator link at the bottom.

Thanks

 

[jjk454ss]

So something like this

http://www.discountwatersofteners.c...ENvOr9G1YcrwgrPEz-8Zt8bsAH4zY3JEfYaArr08P8HAQ

And

http://www.discountwatersofteners.com/fleck-5600-sxt-on-demand-32-000-grain-water-softener.html

Better than the Echo alone?

 

[ditttohead]

Birm is ok in some applications. It has a very small amount of Manganese Dioxide and many companies swear at it rather than by it. I find it to work very well but high levels of dissolved oxygen are needed. Air injection is commonly used to help this media work. I prefer Ferrilight of Katalox Light, these medias contain far higher levels of Manganese Dioxide making them more effective in low DO water.

 

[ditttohead]

Something like this?
Fusion Whole House Backwashing Filter For Iron, Sulfur, Arsenic, And Manganese - 10 GPM

That is a Chinese valve, I would not recommend it. Stick with a Fleck Valve.

 

[_John_]

Ditto, that is just an 85HE with a different looking outer plastic cover, right?

AFIK, that is the only seller selling Katalox systems online.

 

[Bannerman]

With only a single occupant, the demand can't be all that high.

Dittohead, to keep things simple, assuming his requirements are as he's been led to believe, I was wondering the suitability of a liquid chlorine pump followed by a small contact tank followed by a softener with a stacked carbon tank on top? Minimal components and maintenance.

With the carbon tank sharing the same control valve as the softener, I expect the softener would be regenerated more often than if the carbon tank was separate with its own control valve.

Are there any venturi type injectors that would siphon inject liquid chlorine during water flow instead of requiring a pump?

 

[jjk454ss]

Why is everyone saying the iron is too high, on the discountwatersofteners site I read this:

I know my iron level, what type of iron filter should I get?
If your iron level is above 4 or 5 ppm we recommend removing it through filtration before any water softening equipment to extend the life of that equipment.

If mine is 2.5 that sounds like a softener alone is ok.

 

[_John_]

If all the iron in your water was ferrous (2+) and stayed in solution, you'd be fine with just a softener. In practice, iron ends up as a mix of ferrous and ferric, with ferric basically being the red/yellow iron that is no longer in solution.

Some companies will even claim that a softener works for this, but I've seen a LOT of softeners that stir up ferric iron on regenerations and end up with off colored water getting through due to iron, even at levels of 1 ppm.

Maybe customers/previous installers could have done a better job ensuring they regenerated more frequently to compensate (and used resin cleaners), but for whatever the case, they just didn't work ideally.