1980 original pump & well

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Seanthompson

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I appreciate all the wisdom you've been sharing about submersible pump systems. I will be brief to not take too much time.

- I live in north yuba county California. Dry volcanic soil oak woodland foothills.
- My new home has original well & pump from 1980 @140ft.
- 1hp 230V motor control with wx202 running 20-40 psi on switch. No more info from below.
- we have small farm and run pump about 6-8 hrs per night
- been noticing low pressure
- I will hear buzzing noise like pump is running but water seems to be intermittent into tank
- regularly the pressure switch will need to be turned on manually (which is why I put 20-40 instead of the 30-50)
- no sediment or excessive air in the lines
- has most trouble with sprinkler systems

I am sure there are problems with the system I have inherited. I would love whatever suggestions you can offer on how to prolong the life of my current setup and how to eliminate these symptoms, but I am more interested in getting a replacement system to start fresh when this one goes out. I am not the disposable type, but I need a setup I can count on for when I leave town.

- Would the pk1a pside kick kit work for me?
- What new submersible pump would you recommend?
- Being a farm in a drought area, would you suggest deepening my well to be a "deep well"? 300'+ ?
- what would the recovery bucket test tell me?

Thanks again for all your help. Water is life

Photos of current setup:

image.jpg
image.jpg
 

Seanthompson

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I am also adding a 5000 gallon water tank uphill 500' from the well.

-Does this change the setup that I should go with?
-I was going to have it be just for emergencies or is it good for the system to run off the tank like seen here:

image.jpg


I would prefer just one pump of course. Thanks again
 

Reach4

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You may be running short of water in your well at times. If you keep using your present well, you should add an addtional controller to detect when there is no water, and stop pumping for a while.

That controller you have has a capacitor inside that has limited life. You might want to have your well person swap that out to prevent burning out the pump.
 

Seanthompson

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You may be running short of water in your well at times. If you keep using your present well, you should add an addtional controller to detect when there is no water, and stop pumping for a while.

That controller you have has a capacitor inside that has limited life. You might want to have your well person swap that out to prevent burning out the pump.

I put that controller in myself so I know the capacitor is new, about as new as the bad symptoms.

Where is the additional controller installed and what brand/type is best?
 

Reach4

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http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/prod_sensor.html is a product made by Valveman's Company. http://cpkits.com/collections/cycle-sensor-pump-monitors/products/cs1ph1-2hp230v

Franklin offers http://www.franklin-electric.com/residential-light-commercial/protection/protection/pumptec.aspx "Pumptec is a microcomputer-based pump protection device. It monitors motor load and power line conditions to provide protection against dry well conditions, waterlogged tanks, and abnormal line voltage conditions." I don't know if their Pumptek QD does dry well protection.

Symcom sells "Pump Saver".
 

Seanthompson

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- Would the pk1a pside kick kit work for me?
- What new submersible pump would you recommend?
- Being a farm in a drought area, would you suggest deepening my well to be a "deep well"? 300'+ ?
 

Craigpump

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Of course a QD Pump Tek does dry well protection. They are super simple to install, pull your control box cover off, remove two wires and it clips right in. The two wires you pulled hook back to the QD unit. Set the timer for the delay you want, put the cover back on and your all set.

A pump from 1980 is more than likely ready for a trip to the graveyard
 

Valveman

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Yes the Pside-Kick PK1A would work great in this application. If you are running low on water, the CSV in the Pside-Kick will let you run fewer sprinklers at one time without damaging the pump. Basically the CSV lets you match your irrigation zones to the amount the well is producing.

The Cycle Sensor is the only dry well protector that will work with a CSV. The CSV causes the pump to run at lower amps. The other dry well protectors will see this drop in amps as a dry well and shut the pump off when it shouldn’t. The Cycle Sensor is adjustable enough to see and know the difference between reduced amps caused by the CSV and actually pumping the well dry.

You could just be seeing low pressure because you switched from a 30/50 switch to a 20/40 switch. Those switches can be adjusted. Just turn the large adjustment screw clockwise until it turns into a 30/50 switch.

It is very possible your problem is caused by the little nipple connecting the pressure switch being clogged up.
You probably have a 10 or 15 GPM 1HP, which is what you need for that depth and pressure. If you go to a deeper well you will need a larger pump.

You can set up a storage tank system like the drawing below, which will allow you to draw directly from the well as well as the storage tank. This basically gives you a backup for the storage tank system.
 
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Reach4

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It used to be that the top pump makers used Franklin Electric motors. Franklin decided to make their own pumps competing with their long-standing customers. Faradyne was formed by some pump makers to make their own motors. (These are PSC design, and may have some advantage) I read a good history write-up, but I don't find it now. There is reference to this in https://terrylove.com/forums/index....j-series-subemersible-water-well-pumps.54111/

Besides an interesting story, I think the deal is that it has not been that long since the events unfolded. So the offerings are not the same as were available even 10 years ago. So there is not a long established history.

People here will have good and valuable opinions. But I think there is some lack of long history due to the upheaval.
 

Craigpump

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Some pumps are definitely better than others mainly due to the materials used for the motor mount and the discharge heads.

For example, I have seen some pumps with cheap casings that actually crack and get holes in the discharge head. If I knew how, I would post pics of that pump. I have seen pumps with plastic discharge heads where the brass adapter pulled out of the top of the pump.

I like Grundfos pumps, but I'm still leary of their motors. I'm not convinced that Centripro motors are any better than Franklin units and I have no experience with the relatively new Flint & Walling motor. I wish Hitachi would make a 4" motor for the domestic market.

I had great luck with the Franklin pump but my supplier is no longer a Franklin dealer so I'm back to Grundfos and using Pentair for deeper settings.
 

Valveman

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Some pumps are definitely better than others mainly due to the materials used for the motor mount and the discharge heads.

I agree with that.

Cast iron discharges and adapters turn into a rust ball. They can rust so bad water cannot get into the suction of the pump. I have even seem them grow to stick a pump in the well.

Plastic discharge housings and motor adapters are OK if you are careful with them. They get broken on installation more than when in service.

Pumps and motors need to have a non corrosive housing like brass, stainless steel, or plastic. Even if just one screw holding the cable guard can rust away, it can make a big mess and shorten the life of the pump.

Even though the impellers, shafts, motor windings, bearings, and seal maybe the same in almost all pumps, the housing can make a difference.

I like Grundfos pumps too. I started selling them in about 1973. I even have one of the first ones with a splined shaft they sent me to test in 82 still working. It has a Grundfos motor on it as well, but they have changed them several times since then.
 

Texas Wellman

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I take it your talking about preferred? What's up with that? I heard they went back to Pentair. I use another supplier but was surprised when i heard this.

Some pumps are definitely better than others mainly due to the materials used for the motor mount and the discharge heads.

For example, I have seen some pumps with cheap casings that actually crack and get holes in the discharge head. If I knew how, I would post pics of that pump. I have seen pumps with plastic discharge heads where the brass adapter pulled out of the top of the pump.

I like Grundfos pumps, but I'm still leary of their motors. I'm not convinced that Centripro motors are any better than Franklin units and I have no experience with the relatively new Flint & Walling motor. I wish Hitachi would make a 4" motor for the domestic market.

I had great luck with the Franklin pump but my supplier is no longer a Franklin dealer so I'm back to Grundfos and using Pentair for deeper settings.
 

Seanthompson

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With the pside kick kit, do I need to install my own check valves? If so, which do you recommend and where do I install them?
 

Seanthompson

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With a sub the check valve needs to be on the pump. With a jet pump the check valve can be either on the suction or the discharge of the pump.

I'm going to run the pside kick kit with the

Grundfos MQ3-45 (96860207) Pump, 230V 1 HP Multistage Pressure Booster Self-Priming

As to putting the check valve with the pump, does that mean I install it directly on top of the pump outlet? Or as close to it as possible?

What determines the size of the check valve?

I've never even SEEN a sump pump before so I'm just gathering all the information possible before my current one goes out. I dig you guys all taking your time to shed some light.
 

Craigpump

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The MQ has preset factory pressure cut in & cut out, so I don't think it would be compatible with a Pside kick.

I installed one in May of 2010 to boost city water pressure and replaced it last week because it died. Not very good life if you ask me....

I'd use a Goulds.
 
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