1932 bathtub overflow plate and gasket no one has seen before!?

[shmerl]

we bought a 1932 home last year and notice when the bath water fills up to the overflow, it leaks to the dining room ceiling. I unscrewed the cover plate and find behind the tub:

1. A broken hardened runner gasket that is leaking
2. A very thin metal gasket after the rubber gasket
3. The brass drain down spout tube
4. The down spout has a left & right threaded lug where screws go that hold the thin metal gasket against the drain spout.
5. Theses screws are also threaded internally in order to take the screws that both pull the drain spout forward against the tub and also hold the chrome cover plate that goes on the outside of the tub and raises & lowers the drain stopper.

Overall it functions like all the overflow drains you see in store except for the 2 internally threaded screws and the think metal gasket which neither I or 3 different plumbing stores have ever seen before!

The problem is the repair. There isn't enough room to slip the standard beveled replacement rubber gasket between the tub and drain spout. At best there's 1/4" opening and there isn't a door to get to the tub. The repair must be done from inside the tub.

I took a short video which shows the structure, inner metal gasket and double threaded screws. Hopefully your website will allow the video upload. If it does you'll see the issues/problem instantly

Since the usual 3" diameter gasket is too thick, I found a 3" x 1/8" which I was able to slip in between the tub and drain down spout. Then I forced plumbers putty between

the tub > putty > 1/8" gasket > putty > drain spout

The thin metal gasket sits flush seated just inside the drain spout so doesn't seem to be an issue. I can't begin to figure out what it its tsp purpose is actually. It's diameter is larger than the tub overflow hole, so I can't remove it. Actually it's thin enough I probably could bend it over to then force it out the tub hole. I could cut it easily but if it turns out to be needed, I'd have destroyed it.

Another idea is: since the space around the drain spout is about 1/4" - I could sand the beveled soft drain washer so it's 1/4" around and then install it instead of the 1/8" hard rubber washer and putty. Because the beveled washer is softer, I'm thinking the putty wouldn't be needed.

But to conclude, I'm at a loss why I can't find our 1930's tub set online, or any pro plumbers who recognize ours. It's like it never existed! So odd.

The video is just a bit big to upload, so I uploaded to my server if allowed to do is at:

http://www.sasnet.com/bathtub.mp4

Thanks for any insight,

Regards
Steven.

 

[Smooky]

Look at these parts and diagrams and see if you can figure it out:
https://www.plumbingsupply.com/watco-bathtub-drains-and-replacement-parts.html

I think it is the tub overflow retainer plate and is suppose to be on the outside and not between the drain and tub. It holds the drain against the tub.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[shmerl]

I received the BlueVue repair and installed it. Very easy. I haven't tested it yet because I'm assuming the only way to know if all the water is going into the drain, will be to see if any water shows at the dining room ceiling. And if only a little water is now leaking, then we may see no water if just a little is going into the space between the bathroom and dining room floors. But logically since I inserted the protruding gasket spout into the drain, I can't imagine where a leak could happen plus I used some putty to make sure water couldn't leak underneath the gasket

 

[Terry]

The seal goes between the brass drain and the tub. What did the instructions say with that?
The point of the overflow, is that water goes down it instead of over the tub rim onto the floor.
I recall I did that one time at my grandmothers home in Chimacum and got in trouble when the water started pouring through the ceiling of the dining room. I was very young.

 

[Smooky]

Here is some info I found:

http://tuboverflow.theplumbinginfo.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSSbpvAdEWI

http://www.theplumbinginfo.com/remove-replace-repair-bath-tub-overflow/

http://ultimateoverflow.com/ultimate-overflow-gasket-at-work

Here is the manufacture instructions:
http://ultimateoverflow.com/instructions

 

[Terry]

Smooky,
Thanks for the link.

It looks to install from the front of the tub, not the back like I would have thought.
He needs to remove the putty though.

 

[hj]

The thin plate was supposed to be on the outside of the tub with tapped hollow head bolts clamping the tub and rubber gasket between it and the overflow fitting. Then two more shorter bolts screwed into the ends of those bolts to secure the overflow plate. They were NOT "left/right" bolts.

 

[Terry]

The thin plate was supposed to be on the outside of the tub with tapped hollow head bolts clamping the tub and rubber gasket between it and the overflow fitting. Then two more shorter bolts screwed into the ends of those bolts to secure the overflow plate. They were NOT "left/right" bolts.

Now you're just making me dizzy. I need to look at that again.

 

[shmerl]

The seal goes between the brass drain and the tub. What did the instructions say with that?
The point of the overflow, is that water goes down it instead of over the tub rim onto the floor.
I recall I did that one time at my grandmothers home in Chimacum and got in trouble when the water started pouring through the ceiling of the dining room. I was very young.

Hi Terry and Smooky. The way both the Black and Blue version of the gasket with the spout are designed are to mount from the inside of the tub into the drain pipe on the outside of your tub whether you have the cover plate with or without the trip lever.

The only question mark for me is whether I should't have used the Plumber's Putty. The blue rubber is a bit tacky to the touch and I'm now thinking when it is placed against the bath tub inner surface, it adheres perfectly and 100% such that no additional goo of any kind is needed and might actually block the water flow from the bottom of the cover plate if you put too much like I think I did. I'm gonna remove it.

I spoke with the owner/inventor Tim and forgot to ask about that but will, but I wanted to mention that he makes and owns patents on both the black one (called the Ultimate) and the blue one (called the BlueVue). He favors the newer BlueVue and he sent me both to try and the blue rubber is softer and seems to be a better "stick" factor to the tub surface.

The beauty of this system is that the key is the seal on the inside of your tub between the blue flat part with the aluminum gasket on top. So you have an open hole from your inner tub into your drain pipe. The Cover plate is for looks if you don't have the trip lever, and if you do, then the cover plate only serves to pull the drain stopper up and down, off or on.

I think ALL tubs from homes to apartments to hotels, etc. should only use this system and the 100 year old flat gasket on the outside of your tub should be banned because those flat gaskets will break down some day more or less based on chlorine content and age and grade of rubber used.

And after all, what do you want to spend: $9.99 for the BlueVue or the thousands of dollars required to replace the ceiling underneath your tub. We caught ours just in time. And even if your structure stays in tact, there's always mold to be concerned about which could destroy your home if someone's allergic. Yes I'm a big fan now.

Hope all this was helpful. It's such a success story that I can't imagine it not being so.

Have a great weekend everyone. And thanks for your help and interest. Great Forum!!
Best
Steven

 

[hj]

The bolt has a "extended" head with a tapping in it for the second screw.

 

[shmerl]

The bolt has a "extended" head with a tapping in it for the second screw.

Exactly. You're one of the few I've spoken with that has seen this set up before. At least around here, none of the hardware stores had even though there are many homes from this era.

I found that as long as I use the original screws when I replaced the cover plate (original was rusted out) the new plate fit perfectly. The new plates have longer screws and don't, unless I remove that inner bolt screw, but since I have no idea whether that might effect the cover plate and water flow, I opted to try to recreate the original set up with the screw within the inner bolt screw. As I look at it I'm still not sure of it's function. Or the inner thin metal ring. But it's all back in, with the addition of the new BlueVue gasket.

 

[hj]

As I said, the "double bolt" was intended to clamp the tub and gasket between the thin metal ring and the overflow fitting so the seal would NOT depend on the tightness of the overflow plate. Whoever put it behind the tub did not know how it was supposed to go and did not bother to read the instruction.