1924...

Discussion in 'Remodel Forum & Blog' started by Retablo, Mar 16, 2008.

  1. Retablo

    Retablo New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    NYC
    was the last time this bath was Reno'd. Hey Guys, Hal here.
    Sure, it's got a toilet that's "just" 25 years young. And I put
    up donated tile five years later.

    The dimensions are a GYE-normous 3 X 7 feet! One has to exhale
    just to turn around in it. It's our only Bath. But we do have a half
    bath also.

    MEGA problems, short list: floor caving just ahead of toilet. Toilet
    joining it on it's way to China. Door of course won't shut because
    wall and header decided to join floor and toilet on their excursion.

    One light, no outlets. No (working) water shut-offs.

    Experience: Kitchen was far worse three years ago. Taught myself
    carpentry,plumbing, electric, gas relocation, etc. I'm not fast but I
    do a good job. Beautiful Kitchen ! ( photos later)

    Wish me luck, this one makes me nervous. Oh yeah, rule #1,
    CANNOT be w/o a tub for a max of 3 days. No flex here.

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  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,251
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    3x7

    If that room is only 7' long, that must mean the tub is about 30" long because the toilet and sink have to take up at least 54". It will be interesting to see how you make a usable bathroom out of that closet.
  3. Retablo

    Retablo New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    NYC
    I meant to put 8 feet long, not 7. Tub is 54".
    - H
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,804
    Location:
    New England
    You might get a decent sized shower in there...considered that instead of a tub?
  5. Bill Arden

    Bill Arden Computer Programmer

    Messages:
    584
    Location:
    MN, USA
    Good luck.

    You might want to move the tub to the living room and connect up some temporary hoses and a drain.
  6. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    It looks like you have a lot of work there. I would enlarge the room if its possible. Definately get a shower in there and lose that clawfoot. Being without the shower/tub for a few days might be tough. Have you thought about relocating it to an adjacent part of the house (maybe a bedroom or hallway) so you can really guy the place? Most likely you've got quite a bit concrete underneith that floor as well as some damaged joists.

    I'm looking forward to seeing the pics of this one....
  7. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,713
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Me, too. I used to work on airplanes, and early in my career I'd always try to get away with removing as little of the interior as possible to do whatever I was trying to do. Eventually I realized that was a big mistake -- after I began gutting everything first, I was much more efficient at finishing the job at hand.

    Same for home improvement, I've found. In your case, accept and plan for having that space unavailable for however long it takes you to do the job. That would mean relocating the tub for a while. The supply lines won't be too tough to arrange, but good luck with the drain. Maybe you could raise the tub up on blocks or something to give you some drain slope. Tear everything apart, see what you've got to do, and do it.

    Definitely keep us posted on your progress...
  8. Retablo

    Retablo New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    NYC
    subfloor question

    I'm deep in it. Gutted all , toilet, sink out. Tub next.
    Pulling old floor up to joists.

    There is currently 3" of material: 1/2 " flooring, mud deck, 1/8" tile.

    What do you suggest I use to restore floor height. I need the full
    3" for rigidity.

    ps. replacing bath drain and closet bend/flange.

    Thanks for all suggestions. -Hal
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,804
    Location:
    New England
    A deck mud tiled installation is still considered a premium installation. Assuming you are going to put tile down again, and you don't want to do that (it's not as bad as it looks, just a lot of hard work lugging and mixing it all), you need to look at the existing joist structure...it is very possible it isn't up to snuff unless you float a new mudded floor in there.

    You could sister new joists to raise the new plywood subflooring, but keep in mind that to stiffen the joists, the sisters need to span at least the middle 2/3'rds of the entire span (not just the room size unless there are support walls underneath).

    Check out www.johnbridge.com for help with tiling.
  10. Retablo

    Retablo New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    NYC
    existing joist structure

    I can't factor a joist equation into this. Just can't. There is a bad joist
    or two...can only do minimal fix only. Sorry.
  11. Retablo

    Retablo New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    NYC
    how does this sound..

    drop in 3/4" ply. Mud deck with 16/16-guage 2x2 wire mesh embedded.?

    I just need to calculate the amount of mix and sand . How do I do that with
    the Deck Mud Calculator since there won't be slope? Just over calculate?
  12. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,804
    Location:
    New England
    I've seen it done, but not done it myself. The mudbed needs to be a minimum of 1-1/4" thick in order to support itself. Check out that site I mentioned...if it isn't in their 'Liberry', one of the pros there can help you figure out how much material you need.

    It is a big pain mixing the stuff, but putting it down is sort of like playing with beach sand. You can set up screeds, and get a perfectly flat and level floor that is great to install tile over. You'd want some roofing felt stapled on the floor to limit it from pulling moisture out of the mix too fast - that would make it weak. The best reinforcement material...not sure if diamond lath or a grid is best...ask that, too. If it is a small area, it might be nice to put in some floor heating...it shouldn't add too much, and is a nice addition.
  13. Retablo

    Retablo New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    NYC
    Testing Idea #2

    still pondering...pour a rather dry-ish portland cement bed (2.5")
    w/ pencil rebar to create a "floating" floor.(????) - H.
  14. Retablo

    Retablo New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    NYC
    or:

    or, would a standard mud deck mix ( at 2.5") be stiff enough?
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,804
    Location:
    New England
    Deck mud should be fine a little lighter, and easier to get flat, I think.
  16. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,251
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    mud

    The difference in material between a flat floor and a sloped one is minimal, and you would be very cheap if you actually just mixed the exact amount calculated in the first place.
  17. Retablo

    Retablo New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    NYC
    Thanks for the responses so far! I'm going w/ reinforced deck mud. -H:)
  18. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    We need pictures! :D
  19. Retablo

    Retablo New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    NYC
    Ok you sadists...

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    To top off a second 12 hour "delicate" rip-out" , I spotted this hanging
    "chad" of ancient (biblical age) Bx cable that I had disconnected from the
    only electrical feature, a single light bulb, 10 hrs. earlier. I previously had spent a couple hours rewiring everything. This adam and eve bx is bullet
    proof. I decided to chizle the snizle against a beefy 2x3 gang plank.

    Black-out. In my lead paint ingested fatigue I neglected to remember it was a hot wire. Extra 30 min! Enjoy the suffering connected with Pre-civil war building reno.

    ps. There is cool, hand formed 1 1/4 lead p-trap beneath the claw foot tub
    floor. XOXO, -H.
  20. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Hot wire? I hope you're ok! Looks like you've got quite a bit of work there still. Good progress. :) You keepin' the tub or going shower only? When was the building built, before indoor plumbing?

    Jason

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