115 or 230?

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by juggalo6, Mar 1, 2008.

  1. juggalo6

    juggalo6 New Member

    Messages:
    9
    OK, As I posted in an earlier thread, I just bought a piece of land that has a well that has been sitting for about two years. I called the well people that installed to get info on what I have, like you guys said. Now, I have a 1 hp submersible pump and the well guy said it could be hooked up to 115 volts or 230. What's the difference? How do I tell which way it is hooked up? Are there any pro's or con's as to which way I hook it up?
  2. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    You can tell how it is hooked up by finding the circuit breaker for the pump circuit. If it is a 2-pole circuit breaker then it is 230 Volts. If it is a single-pole breaker then it is 115 Volts.

    You can measure the voltage at the inlet of the pressure switch. It should be 115 or 230 between the wires. If it is 230 there should be 115 volts to ground from each wire. (Most of the 2-pole circuits are 240 Volts these days.)

    I have never seen a submersible pump motor where you have an option on how to hook it up.

    It would be very unusual for a 1 HP pump to be supplied with a 115 Volt motor.

    You want a 230 Volt motor with such a pump because there is less voltage drop with the long wires usually associated with a submersible pump. If you are installing new wiring you can use smaller conductors and save money on the wiring.
  3. juggalo6

    juggalo6 New Member

    Messages:
    9
    There is no circuit breakers. This is vacant land with a pre-existing well and septic. The only electrical components are the red,green,and black wires coming from the pump that goes to the pressure switch.
  4. Chris75

    Chris75 Electrician

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    608
    Location:
    Litchfield, CT
    SO the well is already in place and you dont know how they wired it?

    Then I would wire it at 115 first, if it works then your all set, if you get nothing then it was wired at 240 volts, but be warned do not do my advise in reverse...
  5. juggalo6

    juggalo6 New Member

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    9
    I brought my generator out there and hooked it up to one of the 115 volt outlets and it took about half an hour to build the pressure up to 40lbs. The pump cycled on and off every 3 to 4 minutes while building pressure which leads me to believe the pump MIGHT be runing slow because it's hooked up to 230. Does that sound possible?
  6. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    You say it is a 1 HP pump. Measure the winding resistance between red and black wires. Red, green, and black wires says it is a 2-wire pump. Look up the winding resistance of a 1 HP 2-wire pump. At the link http://www.franklin-electric.com/Manual/AIM_13.htm you will find that Franklin doesn't make a 115 Volt 1 HP motor. The resistance of a 1 HP 230 Volt motor is 2.2 to 2.7 Ohms. A 115 Volt motor would have about 1/2 of the resistance; 1.1 to 1.35 Ohms.

    You must add to that the resistance of the wire going both ways to the pump. If it is #12 wire and the distance to the motor is 200 ft then you have to add 200 x 2x 0.00187 = 0.748 Ohm; so you should be measuring about 2.9 to 3.5 Ohms if the distance to the motor is 200 ft. A 115 Volt motor (if it existed) would be between 1.85 and 2.1 Ohms.

    Wire Gauge Resistance per foot
    10 .00118
    12 .00187
    14 .00297
  7. Chris75

    Chris75 Electrician

    Messages:
    608
    Location:
    Litchfield, CT
    if you run 115v to a pump wired at 240 volts, nothing will happen. :D
  8. juggalo6

    juggalo6 New Member

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    9
    Thanks guys. You've really been a big help!!!! By the way, my pump is only 70ft deep so I'll have to do the math with the website you gave me.
  9. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    If the well is only 70' deep...pull the pump and look at it to see what it is. Then you can record all the info like brand, voltage, HP, etc. You can also place it in a barrel of water and see if it is working right. Recirculate the water into the barrel. Let it run for a while and check the amp draw.
  10. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

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    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    If you know the pump is a 1 HP, then it is 230 volt. ½ HP is the largest sub they make with 115 volt supply. Also, a 230 volt pump WILL run on 115 volt. It just won't build the pressure or move the volume it will when running on 230 volts.
  11. Raucina

    Raucina Previous member

    Messages:
    515
    Thats true for a 2 wire pump without a control box, one might add, but not if its a 3 wire pump with a control box and starter controls.
  12. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

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    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Even a 3 wire motor with a control box, I don't know of any submeribles larger than 1/2 HP that can use 115 volts.
  13. verycurious

    verycurious New Member

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    2
    hi, i dont know if this is out of place asking a question in the same page someone else asked a question on, but after reading this, it got me thinking, i have a 1/4 hp 3K091G electric motor, i found a link of what it is just like, i dont know if its the same brand however, same specs though, http://www.drillspot.com/products/48672/Dayton_3K091G_Belt_Drive_Motor
    it is rated at 115v/230v, now what i want to do is power this 115/230v motor off of a battery, now i dont even know if this motor is ac or dc so it may be out of the question from the beginning, but i will need a 9v battery, honestly it could be any battery, all the way up to drill battery size, but i need to increase the voltage of one of these batteries to 115v, also does anybody know why its 115/230, shouldn't they know which it should be powered by when stamping on motor? So basically i need to know how to have a battery powered 115/230v motor, i have seen such devices which can pump the pressure up to 10-20 kv, but this is way out of my range, and i plan to build this device, not buy it. im sorry for such a long reply, thank you
  14. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Verycurious:
    The nature of your questions suggests that you have some way to go in your understanding of electronics and electrical things before you can solve your problem.

    First, a 115/230 Volt motor is an Alternating Current motor, while a battery is Direct Current. The 115/230 on the motor means that its wiring can be changed between 115 Volts or 230 Volts. If it has a cord on it then it is probably wired for whatever the configuration of the cord is.

    A 1/4 HP motor wired for 115 Volts can probably be run using an Inverter. The Inverter would be connected to something like a car battery as input and would have a place to plug in the motor. A car battery might run the motor for 30 minutes. Nine Volt batteries would not run the motor unless you had a few hundred of them.

    When I was about 12 year old I had an idea that I could use a Bunsen Burner to run a steam boiler that would make steam jet to fly a model plane. I didn't understand either thermodynamics or the physics of jets and rockets. Your idea of 9 Volt battery to run a 1/4 HP motor is a similar recipe for failure.

    I doubt that you could build an inverter for what it would cost you to buy one, and you risk that it wouldn't work. You will probably need a 1000 Watt inverter to start the motor because motors have very high starting loads.
  15. verycurious

    verycurious New Member

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    2
    hi, as i stated i didn't know if it was ac or dc, however today i discovered yes it is in fact ac, your analogy of the 9V to the steam jet was inaccurate because i think i forgot to mention the motor needs to run for about 15-20 seconds off a battery, now don't go bashing on me because of inaccurate termonology but i would almost say i plan to hook a motor up to a giant capacitor and release all the charge over very very little time, i understand a 9v will not be able to push 115 volts for long at all, i have hooked up a 9v to a 12v motor and it barely barely gets going, however saying its impossible to create 115 volts out of a 9v is completely false, i have a 100,000 volt taser which is very small for a taser, and its run off a 9v, so obviously there is a way, rather cost effective as i paid $20 for the entire thing, to boost a 9v battery to a mere 115 volts, i did not know if this motor was ac or dc because there are alot of big motors like this that are ac and dc compatibale, what im wondering is if anybody knows what the component is that increases the voltage in say a taser system, and also i know tasers are designed to be very very low rated on current to keep death out of the question, but if this voltage upper could create enough amps to run a couple seconds
  16. Bill Arden

    Bill Arden Computer Programmer

    Messages:
    584
    Location:
    MN, USA
    1. 9 volt battery's can't supply high enough current to run a 1/4 HP motor.
    2. Only series wound Brush motors can be run on either AC or DC.
    3. off topic for this thread since it is not related to a pump.

    Ok, with all that said, here is your solution.

    1. Buy a 2000W 12 volt DC to 120V "Sine wave" output inverter. It needs to be "sine wave" since Cap start motors don't like square waves.
    2. Buy a bunch of "super caps" from the car audio section.
    3. Use ten A,C, or D battery's. (Rat shack sells battery holders)

    1. Connect the battery's in series to get 12 to 15 volts.
    2. Connect that to the "super caps" so that they charge.
    3. Connect the motor to the inverter.
    4. Connect the inverter to the "super caps"
    5. Be amazed as it turns for a few seconds.

    or...

    Buy a 12 volt DC motor.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2008
  17. enosez

    enosez Member

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    88
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    DARWIN AWARD NOMINEE?????:D:rolleyes:
  18. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    The biggest thing I have seen run from a 9 Volt battery is a "booster chair" that is used by people with limited mobility to help them stand up and get out of the chair. Two 9 Volt batteries are used to raise them to a near-standing position if there is a power failure. Two new batteries can deliver enough power for a single raising operation.
  19. SJProwler

    SJProwler New Member

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    13
    Finalist....
  20. FrustratedinNJ

    FrustratedinNJ Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    NJ
    I can confirm that this is true. For reasons I won't go into I just wired my well pump for 230 volts and ran it at 115 volts and it pumped water just fine although MUCH more slowly than when wired for 115 volts. This pump is a Sears 1 HP 115/230 pump and can be wired either way and I wanted to slow it down.

    When run at 115 volts, it pumps like a freaking fire hose. When run this way, it pumps very slow and easy.

    The bad news is that after running it for not much more than 1 minute, it got quite hot. So I think it's not a very viable alternative except for short pumping sessions followed by rather long cooling off periods. I'm yet to wire it back to 115 volts and run it for a minute or 2 and see if it gets similarly hot, but I suspect it won't. I suspect that running it @ 115 volts when wired for 230 volts makes it run a lot hotter than when wired correctly.

    Perhaps someone can confirm?

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