110v off 220v line

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by canoeboy, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. canoeboy

    canoeboy New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    SW WI
    Found this forum doing a toilet project and had a lot of questions answered for me. Great forum 1st post.

    The original owner of my house was an electrician so I never thought about the wiring too much assuming everything was done right and good to go. I found this the other day and it just doesn't look right. In the laundry room is a junction box for the 220v lines for the dryer. Inside the box are also 110v lines to lights and outlets. The 110 lines are connected to the 220v via wire nut. This seems so wrong to me since the 110 lines have no way to trip a breaker in the event of something happening.

    Is this set up wrong, or am I looking at it wrong. The dryer is gas just in case your wondering

    Thanks,

    Mike
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,519
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    The "feed" lines go through the dryer circuit's breakers so they WOULD trip it, but the real question is whether the breaker is still the 30 amp 2 pole or was it changed to a 15 or 20 amp breaker, (single pole or double pole is somewhat irrelevent).
  3. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,532
    Location:
    North Carolina
    If this circuit is still on a 30 amp breaker it needs attention
  4. canoeboy

    canoeboy New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    SW WI
    Still on a 30 amp breaker. Since I don't need it for the dryer and wanted to have 2 110 lines would it be best to run new lines from the service panel.
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,932
    Location:
    New England
    If you change the breaker to say a 20A, dual-pole one, you can create what is called a shared neutral circuit and get two separate 110vac branches. As the name implies, the two circuits share the neutral, but that's okay since the phases are opposite, and when both legs are fully loaded, the actual load on the neutral is zero since it cancels. Search on 'shared neutral' and you'll get some further explanation, if required.
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,519
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Change it to a 15 or 20 amp, depending on your wire size, 2 pole breaker.
  7. canoeboy

    canoeboy New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    SW WI
    Without taking a bunch of nuts and wires off it appears to me that the wires are 10 gauge (blues, red, and white, no bare). I have a very short run in the ceiling above the circuit breaker that is finished, so running new line would be relatively easy. If I went with the dual pole breaker route is it ok to run smaller gauge wire (12 or 14) off the heavier gauge at a junction box.

    Thanks,

    Mike
  8. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,532
    Location:
    North Carolina
    If you install it as a multiwire circuit it will have to be a two pole or two breakers with handle ties.

    14 gauge wire equals 15 amp breaker no exceptions

    12 gauge wire equals 15 or 20 amp breaker no exceptions


    10 gauge wire equals 15, 20, or 30 amp breaker no exceptions

    No smaller conductor can be installed
  9. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,519
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; No smaller conductor can be installed

    It depends on HOW you mean that. A #10 can be connected to a 15 or 20 amp breaker, and the continue as a #14 or #12 without creating a hazardous condition. BUT, you cannot connect a smaller wire than the breaker is rated for.
  10. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,532
    Location:
    North Carolina
    The smallest conductor that can be installed is a 14 and it must be on a 15 amp breaker and so forth ie.. 12 = 20, 10 = 30 of if one wishes 10 = 15 amp breaker
  11. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,519
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Agreed, but that does not preclude using a larger wire and then reducing it to the minimum size permitted by the breaker's capacity.
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