11" rough in, need round front which will fit Toto washlet

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Attofarad, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. Attofarad

    Attofarad New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    San Jose
    I've seen a lot of suggestions for elongated, not much for round.

    I'd like to be able to continue using my S300 round seat washlet, but
    the new location has only about 11" from center of drain (no flange yet)
    to the finished wall -- tile work ended up a lot thicker than planned.

    What ROUND toilets can accommodate the washlet and still be squeezed
    in there. I can probably cheat the bolts 1/4" forward, but don't
    want to find out it still doesn't fit. I don't want to go to 10" rough,
    since the gap would be too large.


    Gary
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,188
    Location:
    New England
    I'm assuming you have tile on the wall? The rough-in measurement is from the wall, not the baseboard (or tile, if it is used as a baseboard). If you can find one, one of the original Drakes should fit, but they haven't made them for awhile. Being in San Jose, you may be required to use a 1.28g flush toilet, though, and that will also limit your choices.
  3. Attofarad

    Attofarad New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    San Jose
    Yes, tile on the entire wall. My reading of the regulations is that I can
    still install a 1.6 gallon until 2014.
  4. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,903
    Location:
    New York, NY
    On 11", you can use an original 1.6gpf Drake (CST743S in round) or an original 1.28gpf Drake (CST743E in round). The "E" works fine, so I would probably go with that.

    Also, your S300 round-seat washlet will fit, according to the Toto fit chart, on a round original Drake, in either 1.6 or 1.28 configuration (it's actually the exact same bowl for both the 1.6 and 1.28, so that makes sense).

    I'm not sure what Jim means when he says they haven't made them in a while. They are both currently still in production. In fact, there's a new parts list for the original Drake dated June 2013.

    Your seat will also fit on a round original Ultramax (not the Ultramax II, which is always elongated) and a round Promenade, both of which are still out there. However, I don't think either will just plop down and fit on 11" like the original Drake will. This question came up on the forum in 2010 with respect to the Promenade, and Terry indicated that you had about 3/4" behind the toilet plus you could probably scooch the toilet forward a little bit and fudge the bolts on the flange a bit to get that extra 1/4". http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?34342-toto-promenade-11-quot-rough-in
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  5. Attofarad

    Attofarad New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    San Jose
    What is the outer diameter of the Toto horn? I'm wondering how far forward I
    can cheat the location.

    My flange isn't in yet -- other bathooms got the 4"pipe/3" knockout Sioux Chief
    one, but I picked up the 4"/4" one for this one. These are ABS with the
    stainless steel rotating ring (until you screw it down). It that appropriate here?
    Any problem with the wax ring sealing at the rear if I pull the toilet forward?
  6. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,903
    Location:
    New York, NY
    It's appropriate. No there won't be a problem with the wax ring. You can cheat it about 3/8".

    You won't need to cheat anything if you use the original Drake CST744S or CST744E (emphatically NOT the Drake II, CST454CEFG, which needs 11.5"). I have an original Drake on 11" and there's still a smidge of room behind. Installed just like I was dropping it on 12".
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,188
    Location:
    New England
    The feds and some states/counties are mandating lower flush volumes...as the regulations take hold, there'd be no reason to still make the older ones. As a result, they will be harder to come by, and eventually, illegal to install (probably not still sell, which is weird).
  8. Attofarad

    Attofarad New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    San Jose
    In California, actually becomes illegal to sell in 2014. Phased in over several years, in 2013 85% of models offered by a manufacturer have to meet the 1.28gpf; 2012 was 75%, 2014 is 100%. January 1, 2014 becomes illegal to install or offer for sale > 1.28gpf.
  9. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,903
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Right, but all the "original" toilets (e.g. Drake, Promenade, Ultramax, etc.) now come in "Eco" versions which flush with 1.28gpf. It's the old toilet with the right gpf, not the II version with the new double-cyclone flush.
  10. Attofarad

    Attofarad New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    San Jose
    Looks like the Toto Supreme might be another candidate. It show space as 1" behind the tank on the spec sheet. Looks like the flush is okay, but not as good as some others.
  11. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,903
    Location:
    New York, NY
    The Supreme is fine. However, it has a lower water column, as it is basically an original Ultramax with a shorter "tank" section, so it may have a little less oomph in the flush.
  12. Attofarad

    Attofarad New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    San Jose
    Yes, quite a bit shorter than the original Ultramax. It looks much like my discontinued Toto Bristol, maybe a half inch shorter for the Eco Supreme. The Bristol has always flushed great, with a quick refill. The only trick to that one is to hold down the lever an extra second so that the tank level drops a bit more -- otherwise the tank will refill before the bowl gets back up to its maximum level.
  13. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,903
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Um...when you say "maximum level", do you mean the level at which the water settles after it has sat for a few minutes after refill? Remember that the water level in the bowl is determined by the height of the "weir" which is inside the toilet and is where the water runs over to start its journey downwards; the bowl can temporarily refill above its settle-point, but the water will drip over the weir until settles at a certain point.

    If you are telling me that your Bristol is not refilling the bowl sufficiently without you holding down the lever, which would cause it to dump almost all of the tank, and turn it into a 3gpf toilet instead of a 1.6gpf toilet, then your fill valve isn't adjusted properly or you have the wrong fill valve in there. The toilet should refill to about 1/2" below the top of the overflow tube. If that's not where your water level is, then adjust the fill valve so that it is. This should obviate the need to hold down the handle.

    If the fill valve is set to the correct height, then you have the wrong valve in there or the refill component isn't properly-adjusted. If someone dropped a white-cap Korky 528 or a regular Fluidmaster 400A in there as a replacement, it only puts 20% of the fill water down the refill tube, whereas you need closer to 40% (precisely because it's a shorter fill time at 1.6gpf). The best replacement valve, which is a cinch to install, is the Korky 528MP (silver cap), which allows you to adjust the refill ratio from as little as zero to as much as 40%, just by turning a little knob on it. It's about $11 at Lowes.

    Nobody should have to do anything to make a toilet run perfectly other than pull the flush handle. Any other adaptive behavior indicates that there needs to be some adjustment in the tank.

    Good luck!!
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2013
  14. Attofarad

    Attofarad New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    San Jose
    The water level in the tank is fine. There just isn't enough refill water going to the bowl to top it up to the weir by the time the tank fills and shuts off the valve. Or the flap closes too soon. All original, has been this way since day 1. Maybe more like 2 gallons instead of 1.6. Still flushes fine either way, but the water surface size is smaller, maybe 1/2" lower, if you don't hold the lever for about 1.5-2 seconds.
  15. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,903
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Then you need to raise the water level in the tank despite the fact that it's "fine", so it's closer to the top of the refill tube, as the easiest fix.

    Also make sure that the refill hose isn't kinked or aimed such that some of the refill water splashes outside of the refill tube. Sounds dumb, I know, but we have seen all of these, even on new models.

    If the flapper is closing too fast, possibly it isn't being pulled straight up or the chain needs to be adjusted so it pulls all the way open. I was having some "misfires" on my Drake where it would sometimes close faster than even its normal fast close, adjusted the chain and voila.
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