1/2" PEX supply lines to Moen Shower valve

Discussion in 'Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog' started by spooner, Dec 30, 2006.

  1. spooner

    spooner New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Alberta
    Hey,
    I am trying to rough in my basement bath, and I have used PEX piping for the entire job. I am trying to install my shower valve, and was curious on what the correct way to connect PEX piping to shower valve?
    I purchased a Moen Shower Valve with interior threads, do i attach the PEX directly to the hot and cold water holes with an adapter or do I attach a few inches of copper and then attach the PEX to the copper pipes sticking out of the valve?
    Same with the connection from the valve to the shower head? Do i have to sweat the copper pipes and attach it to the shower head? or can I just go PEX from the valve to the shower head.
    Both the shower head and valves have female threaded holes.

    Thanks for the help in advance.
  2. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    If the position is right for the shower wall and the valve can be secured well to the framing you can run the PEX to the valve. Personally I like to secure the valve and run copper to the framing and secure it then run my PEX from there. Both will work.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2006
  3. Lancaster

    Lancaster New Member

    Messages:
    164
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2012
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,304
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    shower

    Since this is a shower, you can get away with using PEX for the shower riser. If it were a tub/shower doing so would create several problems.
  5. jeffResistor

    jeffResistor New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Washington DC
    I realize I'm 2 years late on this, but I just connected a Moen shower valve yesterday with 1/2 in pex, and maybe I can help others who run across this thread. For the shower valve I used 1/2" PEX males adapters for the hot and cold in, as well as the out to the shower head. For the shower head I used a 1/2" PEX drop ear elbow.

    Since both the shower valve and the drop ear elbow connect directly to the framing with screws, there's no need to rely on copper to hold them in place. I used exterior screws to guarantee against rust and corrosion. Also, since all of the adapters are direct to PEX, you don't have to sweat copper stubs for your connections, which would create extra potential points of failure. The PEX lines are then secured to the framing with the normal 1/2 inch plastic talons, although once everything was connected it was pretty solid and I doubt the talons were necessary.

    I'll repost when I get a minute to snap a photo.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2012
  6. Good luck with that jeff.



    There's a class action lawsuit on those fittings breaking off/snapping under stress. They still sell them but that doesn't mean they are good.


    Take a look at how thin that brass is in the barbed area of that fitting; that's why they are breaking over time and they made these thin to accommodate the ability to work without creating reduced flow by reducing the inside dimension of the piping.

    The industry has now brought a serious reduction in flow to the fixture by having these fittings all dropping the size of the pipe before it reaches the fixture. This causes the problem with flow reduction when numerous fixtures are in operation in a home.


    Care to explain this statement?


    1/2" copper delivers exactly what its dimensions state, 1/2" water flow.


    Keep an eye out for your brass fittings in your wall; when they snap it is instant, without warning, in your sleep, while on vacation, away at work, water running till the dog floats out of the basement and the pool table sits in the driveway.


    http://www.zurnclassaction.com





    I bet you're thinking Awe G'Dammit! I found a way to get from soldering and the **** I bought at Lowe's is junk! Sufferin' succatash!
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2009
  7. jeffResistor

    jeffResistor New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Photos of PEX shower installation

    Here are a couple of photos showing the shower valve and head connections I described above.

    The shower valve:
    dead link

    The shower head elbow (note: the red pex coming out of the elbow is just for testing and keeping debris out while the concrete board and tile go up):
    dead link

    The overall installation:
    dead link
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2012
  8. DUDE,



    You've got that PEX strained into the hot/cold ports of that valve. Those 2 connections you linked are going to be the first 2 to snap off with the way you have that "pulled" to make that turn up vertical.



    Those tube talons?


    They're plastic, with the exception of the nail itself.


    In about 3/4/5 years with the constant temperature changes in those water lines from hot to cold, cold to hot, back and forth, cool down to room temperature,

    those tube talons get very brittle and snap right where the hook end goes back to the nail. I've seen it more times than I care to say.

    This will take time before they break but you'll know this years from now when they snap and valve now moves freely in the wall.


    I got no reason to lie, I'm telling you how it goes in plumbing with those materials.


    And I don't even want to start with my chirade on that Moen faucet. If you don't pull that cartridge and grease it every 2 years in that assembly it'll take a dump truck, special tools to get it out of that valve body.


    THAT is when you'll see those tube talons snap.
  9. jeffResistor

    jeffResistor New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Washington DC
    The original post was asking if he had to sweat copper stubs to attach to the shower valve in order to make the connection to PEX possible. That would mean two sweated copper joints per each connection in addition to the pex connection (one for the copper male adapter and one for the copper to pex adapter). Going directly to pex reduces the number of connections (by 8 in my system), which are all potential points of failure.

    Thanks for the heads up on the fittings. Now that I've spent the last year converting 1/2 of my house to pex with the vanguard manibloc system, I guess it's back to the drawing board, or propane torch... :(
  10. jeffResistor

    jeffResistor New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Thanks for all of the warnings! I'm kind of too far into the pex conversion to turn back, so I guess I'll have to wait and see what nightmares are in store for me in the next few years. I suppose I'll be leaving a $h1tl0ad of access panels everywhere I have a connection! And I'll be popping them open every day to have a look...

    On the valve connection, should I use the 90 degree bend guides to make the connection more straight on, or is it the same risk regardless? Thanks again!
  11. jeffResistor

    jeffResistor New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Bronze fittings?

    Hmmm, looks like on that class action web site, one of the companies switched to the Viega bronze fittings after hundreds of failures of the brass Zurn fittings. Any experience with Viega bronze? Now's the time for me to switch them out before the walls get closed in.


  12. It was a big shock to quite a few when this class action lawsuit came out, and it's not even in full production yet of being newsworthy, but it's coming!


    I'd remove that strain on those brass fittings immediately. They will break according to the lawsuit.


    I seriously wouldn't want that stuff in my house, seriously. It's not going to be good when it does break and your insurance company may not insure it.


    I'm not aware of the reliability of the product. I'd hate to say either way because until a year ago I thought Zurn was a good, reliable product.

    Everything is imported these days so quality control is at a all time low it seems.
  13. jeffResistor

    jeffResistor New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Thanks RUGGED. I guess I'll just redo the shower valve connection to reduce the strain and switch out all of my Zurn brass pieces with Viega bronze. Luckily I can still get to every connection I've made. I'm especially worried about the 3/4 inch connections between the water heater and the manifold. It's a VERY good thing I found this forum before I finished putting the walls together. Phew!
  14. mbarylski

    mbarylski New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Class Action Suit

    I've been reading about the class action lawsuit that you're talking about too. I'm in the process of going through a bath remodel and I used PEX for everything so obviously I wanted to make sure the pipes would stand the test of time. I'm in the Washington, DC area and every PEX supply house that I talked to told me they've never had any problems with PEX (including Zurn PEX). They indicated that it has a lot to do with the area of the country that it's used in, the water, etc. Honestly, I don't know what to believe, but I thought I'd throw that out there as some food for thought.
  15. BlackNoir

    BlackNoir Software Engineer

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Centerville, MN
    I'm curious, couldn't you just put in a couple 90 degree PEX elbows instead of that sharp bend? Is there any reason not to use PEX elbows? Seems like it would be the same as using copper. Especially if you used rigid PEX pipe instead of the flexible stuff.

    [​IMG]

    I'm going to be doing a shower soon and am planning on doing it with PEX and this was pretty much the route I was planning on going.

    -BlackNoir
  16. kingsotall

    kingsotall Plunger/TurdPuncher

    Those aren't "Pex" elbows. Those are sharkbites. See if your locale approves of those type of fittings in concealed locations.
  17. BlackNoir

    BlackNoir Software Engineer

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Centerville, MN
    True, they're not actually PEX elbows.. I guess I was just using them as example. The question still stands, which is, is there any reason not to use PEX elbows?

    But, a good point about the sharkbites in concealed locations. I might just have to invest in a crimper after all.

    So if you shouldn't use sharkbites and the Zurn Brass connectors have a class action lawsuit against them making me NOT want to use them, how exactly can you use PEX in a concealed location? Would you recommend the new Zurn Platic connectors? I saw a bunch of those at ******* but hadn't heard anything about them yet.
  18. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,824
    Location:
    New England
    Sharkbites have all the national certifications for use in closed locations, but local rules might trump that...
  19. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,453
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Kitec, Zurn, Rehau, Durapex...
    Just a few hiccups in the world of pex...
  20. mcintoshmc

    mcintoshmc New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Ok, and 3 years later where are we on all this? I'm in the planning stages of a PEX install although my older more wise neighbor suggests I go with copper because it is tried and tested. I'm going with PEX regardless, but 3 years later, how should I connect to the shower valves?
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