Pressure Tank

[Valveman]

Yes the J10S would be a much better pump. It will build a max of 67 PSI while lifting from 20'. This means with a CSV you want to run the pressure switch at about 37/57 max. I like to stay 10 PSI below the max pressure the pump can build for safety reasons.

The larger the pressure tank, the closer you set the CSV to the pressure switch off setting. With a 37/57 pressure switch and a 20 gallon tank (5 gallon draw) you would set the CSV for 55 PSI constant. This way the tank fill quickly to 55 PSI. The CSV will then hold 55 PSI constant for as long as you are using water. Then when all the faucets are closed, the CSV only has to fill the tank from 55 to 57 at 1 GPM, which should only take about a minute.

The pump will run longer because of the CSV, which is good for the pump. But the amps will be reduced by the CSV, so the little longer run times do not add up to much energy use.

 

[Grunt]

It does use a bit more power to operate. That is one of the negatives.

The only reason to switch the pump to 110v power is if you're generator is 110v. The smallest generator to run a 1-hp jet will be a 3500 watt ( not all generators are created equal). Most use a 5500 watt.

It does use a bit more power to operate. That is one of the negatives.

The only reason to switch the pump to 110v power is if you're generator is 110v. The smallest generator to run a 1-hp jet will be a 3500 watt ( not all generators are created equal). Most use a 5500 watt.

From previouse post:
"I have a couple inverter generators & portable air conditioners which have 2 gl buckets that store condensate, when full we pour them into the commode tank. Then there is always setting out buckets & catching rain water. With the inverter generators there are parallel cables to hook them together so I have a total of 52 amps but not 220v only 115 volt. Generators are trii-fuel NG, LP, unleaded, 285 gallon underground LP tank, 3 portable unleaded storage tanks total 65 gl.

Texas wellman; the pump motor is 1 hp 9 amp to answer your previous question that I forgot to answer & is wired for 220v from main breaker box. Generator plugs into 30amp plug on outside of house to power up main breaker box (& yes have lock out transfer switch) just have to insure to turn off all 220v breakers.I could run the pump on 115v but don't trust myself reading the wiring diagrahm on the back plate thru the use of a mirror & moving the wires around corectly. Notice how close back of motor is to wall previouse pictures."
V / R Dwayne

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Grunt]

Yes the J10S would be a much better pump. It will build a max of 67 PSI while lifting from 20'. This means with a CSV you want to run the pressure switch at about 37/57 max. I like to stay 10 PSI below the max pressure the pump can build for safety reasons.

The larger the pressure tank, the closer you set the CSV to the pressure switch off setting. With a 37/57 pressure switch and a 20 gallon tank (5 gallon draw) you would set the CSV for 55 PSI constant. This way the tank fill quickly to 55 PSI. The CSV will then hold 55 PSI constant for as long as you are using water. Then when all the faucets are closed, the CSV only has to fill the tank from 55 to 57 at 1 GPM, which should only take about a minute.

The pump will run longer because of the CSV, which is good for the pump. But the amps will be reduced by the CSV, so the little longer run times do not add up to much energy use.

Bad news; the csv1a was the one I wanted to order but found out it has a 23 psi friction loss according to the young ( really good looking ) babe I spoke to on the phone at cycle stop valve inc.. That was the one I wanted because I didn't want possible driping as in the case of the csv 125.
The cvs 125 has less than 1 psi friction loss and is not adjustable. I'm stuck with ordering a 50 psi model or a 60 psi model plus the potential of occasional drips. I have 9 psi drop from the 20 ft rise from pump to her upstairs shower which puts me at 41 psi using the 50 psi csv 125.
Right now I run 43 psi up there once the pump pressure has stabilized from cut in at 30 psi. I need a pump (shallow well) 1 hp at least 12 gpm at 70 psi 20 foot draw from well then I can use the 60 psi csv 125. Any one know of such a pump 1 hp 12 gpm 20 ft draw 70 psi ? Or some other Idea preferable not a booster pump.
V / R Dwayne

 

[Valveman]

Sure. Just step up one size to the J15S.

 

[Reach4]

Any one know of such a pump 1 hp 12 gpm 20 ft draw 70 psi ? Or some other Idea preferable not a booster pump.

2 inch well, or is there a chance that you could use a submersible pump?

 

[Texas Wellman]

Cary is that pressure loss constant or does it vary with flow?

 

[Valveman]

Cary is that pressure loss constant or does it vary with flow?

The only time you even see friction loss from a CSV is when you are trying to use maximum pump flow. At 25 GPM flow the CSV1A has 23 PSI friction loss and the CSV125 has 2 PSI loss. So if your pump will give you 25 GPM at 60 PSI, you will have 58 PSI on the sprinklers with the CSV125, but only 37 PSI with the CSV1A.

Anytime you are using less than 25 GPM or max flow, the CSV has to put extra friction loss on the pump to keep it from producing more than you are using. When you are using say 10 GPM, the CSV has to hold back about 100 PSI to make a 25 GPM pump produce 10 GPM. This keeps the pressure at a constant 60 PSI on the sprinklers, and keep the pump running by not letting the pressure in the tank reach cut off on a 50/70 pressure switch. So if the CSV is holding back 100 PSI and letting out a constant 60, it is adding 40 PSI friction loss to make the pump deliver the correct amount.

I hate to call it friction loss, as people think that is a bad thing. But it is good when you need it to make the pump produce less water. And as I have shown here many times, the extra pressure, "friction loss", "artificial head", or whatever you want to call it makes a centrifugal pump use less energy.

Now if you only have a 10 GPM pump, the friction loss on the CSV1A when you are using 10 GPM, is only about 5 PSI. So if your pump will deliver 10 GPM, at 60 PSI, you will still have 55 PSI constant on the sprinklers when using all 10 GPM. At 3 GPM like for a shower the pressure will be a constant 60 PSI. The friction loss of the CSV1A is usually minimal and not noticed at regular flow rates, only when maxing everything out. The CSV1A works with really high pressure pumps that build so much pressure they more than make up for the friction loss, and you never notice it. The CSV1A is also adjustable between 15 and 150 PSI, handles quite a bit of iron and sand, and does not vent water to atmosphere.

A really good thing about the CSV125 is that is has almost no friction loss. However, it is not adjustable, (40, 50, or 60 PSI only), doesn't handle really high pressure pumps, and vents a little water to atmosphere if you pump iron or sand. But the pressure usually doesn't need adjusting, most house well size pumps don't build too much pressure, and the CSV125 never leaks a drop as long as the water if fairly clean.

 

[Grunt]

The only time you even see friction loss from a CSV is when you are trying to use maximum pump flow. At 25 GPM flow the CSV1A has 23 PSI friction loss and the CSV125 has 2 PSI loss. So if your pump will give you 25 GPM at 60 PSI, you will have 58 PSI on the sprinklers with the CSV125, but only 37 PSI with the CSV1A.

Anytime you are using less than 25 GPM or max flow, the CSV has to put extra friction loss on the pump to keep it from producing more than you are using. When you are using say 10 GPM, the CSV has to hold back about 100 PSI to make a 25 GPM pump produce 10 GPM. This keeps the pressure at a constant 60 PSI on the sprinklers, and keep the pump running by not letting the pressure in the tank reach cut off on a 50/70 pressure switch. So if the CSV is holding back 100 PSI and letting out a constant 60, it is adding 40 PSI friction loss to make the pump deliver the correct amount.

I hate to call it friction loss, as people think that is a bad thing. But it is good when you need it to make the pump produce less water. And as I have shown here many times, the extra pressure, "friction loss", "artificial head", or whatever you want to call it makes a centrifugal pump use less energy.

Now if you only have a 10 GPM pump, the friction loss on the CSV1A when you are using 10 GPM, is only about 5 PSI. So if your pump will deliver 10 GPM, at 60 PSI, you will still have 55 PSI constant on the sprinklers when using all 10 GPM. At 3 GPM like for a shower the pressure will be a constant 60 PSI. The friction loss of the CSV1A is usually minimal and not noticed at regular flow rates, only when maxing everything out. The CSV1A works with really high pressure pumps that build so much pressure they more than make up for the friction loss, and you never notice it. The CSV1A is also adjustable between 15 and 150 PSI, handles quite a bit of iron and sand, and does not vent water to atmosphere.

A really good thing about the CSV125 is that is has almost no friction loss. However, it is not adjustable, (40, 50, or 60 PSI only), doesn't handle really high pressure pumps, and vents a little water to atmosphere if you pump iron or sand. But the pressure usually doesn't need adjusting, most house well size pumps don't build too much pressure, and the CSV125 never leaks a drop as long as the water if fairly clean.

Haven't started yet, the pump I ordered (goulds j10s) hasn't arrived & the two inline amtrol's (wx-104) I want are on back order every where I check online. I am considering other options but don't want a stand tank again with pump ontop, don't have the room to put stand tank & pump on floor, want to go inline. A question I have is on these pressure tanks what is meant by "MAX ACCEPTANCE FACTOR" ?

Did get my chain fall rigged up so I don't have to try to slide pump onto my walker. Was looking at pulling motor off of pump first but not sure how much room I need between motor & the wall ? V/ R Dwayne

 

[Texas Wellman]

I'm not sure what the piping configuration at the well is but you can turn the new well whichever way you want, even if you need to use a 90.

 

[Grunt]

I'm not sure what the piping configuration at the well is but you can turn the new well whichever way you want, even if you need to use a 90.

Isn't going to be a new well. Going to install a new / different pressure tank & pump, going to lift pump off of tank to pull blown bladder tank out then lower pump to floor & should be able to slide the pump out to replace with smaller tank & goulds j10s & probably csv valve. In the picture I was showing how much room between pump motor & wall & asking if that is enough space to pull pump motor off of pump. Does the motor slide straight back towards the wall when I unbolt it from pump & if so how much room do I need.
V/R Dwayne

 

[Texas Wellman]

The motor won't unbolt from the pump. The shaft goes into the pump where the impeller is attached.

I said new well, I meant new pump.

Just cut the pipe going in the pump and out the discharge.

 

[Grunt]

The motor won't unbolt from the pump. The shaft goes into the pump where the impeller is attached.

I said new well, I meant new pump.

Just cut the pipe going in the pump and out the discharge.

I understand, I had looked at turning the pump (90) but it would then be partially blocking the door, if turned & run along back wall would be using up a lot of floor space that I wanted for other use & pump / motor would be under filter, flow valve, injection fitting etc & I would worry if any leaks started it would be driping on the pump / motor. My new pump got here today goulds j10s but the amtrol wx-104 tanks I wanted are not going to be available till april time frame. The bladder in my pressure tank now is completely gone air runs thru ballcocks in comodes when I top off pressure in the tank & flush commode. Have to make a move asap. Feel like krap caught a bad cold droped into chest, women are hungry & when a women is hungry they get irritable. So for now just ordered a csv pk1a side kick will throw that & new pump in as soon as it gets here.
The new pump is almost 1/2 the size compared to that dinosaur thats in there right now.
V / R Dwayne

 

[Grunt]

She's gone on her trip, got to start the swap out yesterday but the heat in the garages too much. We hit 94 yesterday so been working at it off & on.
Drained back & cut some out this evening & fitted up pump & wired, went with 10 gauge stranded from pressure switch to motor. Theres not much room in the motor & if I could have found some of these it would have been a great deal eaiser. Not to be found in big box stores or ace. Just realized probably could have found at the boat supply store. Going to use the chain fall to pull pump off tank early A M tomorrow. When I drained down I put air into the pressure tank but no water or air blew out the outside hose bib which would normally happen whenever I added air to the tank. Suspect bladder might be blocking & feels like tank is full of water will find out if I have to punch a hole as soon as I get that dinasaur lifted off it. Floriduh on fire even the swamps, the smoke & the heat make things misarable but am enjoying myself, deathly quite since she's gone.
V / R Dwayne
.

 

[Grunt]

Everything's out, never noticed before there is no ground on the elect. feed to the pump, shouldn't need to worry ? Grounded thru water / well ?

The tank was 2/3 full & bladder is blocking discharge, drilled a hole & pumped it out lots of sludge. Was able to pull pump off tank easily was not as heavy as I thought maybe 90 lbs. Concerned about the no ground. Am very surprised I never had any cycling because of bad bladder.
V / R Dwayne

 

[Valveman]

The case of the jet pump motor should be grounded. You can use the ground lug on the housing of the pressure switch that is mounted to the side of the motor.

 

[Grunt]

Yes I have the motor grounded to the pressure switch but what I was showing was my supply (electrical) 230v from main breaker is only 2 wire no
ground wire ?

V / R Dwayne

 

[Valveman]

Oh OK. For safety reasons you should probably pull a ground wire from the pressure switch to the breaker. I know it probably worked that way for years. But it could be dangerous if something shorts out and there is no ground connected.

 

[Grunt]

I had read somewhere that it would be grounded thru the water in the pump to the well & that the water running thru house galvanized piping & that the piping is grounded to main breaker box does that make any sense ? I have seen grounding wire / clamps on galvanized water heater piping. It is a mute point though intend to pull new wire anyways -another project.
V / R Dwayne

 

[Reach4]

I had read somewhere that it would be grounded thru the water in the pump to the well & that the water running thru house galvanized piping & that the piping is grounded to main breaker box does that make any sense ?

No. The pipes might ground the pump case, but not the water. The connection could be unreliable.

 

[Grunt]

Done, running good water pressure in house, her upstairs bathrooms can visually tell better pressure. Too tired / beat up to get pressure gauge & check numbers. Running 57 constant at pump according to gauge supplied with kit, but pressure gauge at carbon tank reads 51 prior to entering carbon tank ? It does take a couple of minutes to build up to 57 psi from 40 psi cut in. This was a nice project, wasn't just adding new pump csv & small tank replaced all piping, valves etc. Still have a little neatining up to do and rewire run & 1 hose bib to tie in but for the next day gonna sit & enjoy the solitude ( four more days till she returns) Here's some pictures, Haven't plumbed for about 20 years now & the way I feel I don't want too. Tried to stay colored cordinated (not really just happened that way), blue tank, blue pump, blue handled ball valves, christy's BLUE fire cement, & I just had to have my Blue yamaha generator nearby. V / R Dwayne
View attachment 39602