Which City water pressure booster pump is right for me to increase PSI ?

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Valveman

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66 or 72 PSI should peel your skin off in the shower. You will have the same pressure on the outside spigot as does the shower. The only difference is the pipes to the shower are causing a restriction. I would bet if you put a 3 GPM shower head on it will have lots of pressure. But when you try to use 6+ GPM the friction loss in the pipes to the shower are reducing the pressure at the shower head. So like you said you will either need to increase the pipe size to the shower or boost the pressure. You won't have as much incoming pressure when the pump starts sucking on the line. So if you have 66 PSI now, I would figure about 40 coming into the pump. So you need a booster pump that can produce 10-12 GPM and boost the pressure from 40 PSI to 120 PSI. You could also just put the booster on the line to the shower and nothing else. That way the rest of the house would not have 120 PSI on it, and the pump would not have to be larger to keep up with the shower plus the other uses in the house at the same time.
 

Gregmech26

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Thanks for both of your responses.

After witnessing the awesome water pressure coming out of my hose spigot at 66 psi, I now agree with you that 70 psi should "peel my skin off" . There is no way that is the same pressure coming out of my shower arm. For example, if I removed my shower head, the pressure out of the shower arm is not "skin peeling" as it is out of the hose spigot. It's more of a wide, dull, solid rope-like stream.

Also, my shower head is very small. As mentioned earlier, it is the pre-1992 Speakman "AnyStream" shower head with only 4-jets. I think some models feature up to 8-jets.

Obviously, I removed the water-saver.

I've tried the 8-jet version and the rain shower heads, but the water pressure was horrible in my opinion. As you said, I would do poorly with a 6 gpm shower head. That's why I use the smaller ones from pre-1992. The smaller the shower head, the stronger the water pressure. At least that's what it feels like to me. The post-1992 shower heads, regardless if I remove the water-saver, still suck in my opinion compared to the pre-1992 shower heads.

Yes, most everyone I've consulted with recommends increasing the pipe size to 3/4 or 1 inch. I would even go higher to 1.5 inches if it would make any difference. Ultimately, it all has to be reduced to 1/2 inch copper pipe before the shower arm and mixing valve correct?

It's likely difficult and expensive to accomplish , especially when the house is already built and basement finished. I will keep my fingers crossed and see what proposals I can find out there.
 

Reach4

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Ultimately it all has to be reduced to 1/2 inch copper pipe before the shower arm and mixing valve. It's likely difficult and expensive to accomplish , especially when the house is already built and basement finished.
With what you have, consider raising the hot water temperature so that there is more cold used at the mixer than currently.

For troubleshooting/study, and if you have good access you could get one or more pressure gauges installed. I am not a plumber. I might be tempted to put in some saddle valves for that, as might be used with a humidifier or ice maker. I would prefer to drill the copper rather than punching through with the pin. 1/4 OD copper from the tap would be enough. There is the possiblity of a leak with a saddle valve, in which case you would have the saddle valve replaced with a sweat tee.
 

Valveman

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For example, if I removed my shower head, the pressure out of the shower arm is not "skin peeling" as it is out of the hose spigot. It's more of a wide, dull, solid rope-like stream.

This tells me that the pipes to the shower are restricted long before it gets to the shower. If you had 66 PSI coming out of a plain 1/2" shower pipe, it would drill a hole in the back wall. The smaller heads have more pressure because you don't lose as much to friction loss when the flow is less.

And yes even if you increase the line size you still have to plumb to a 1/2" shower valve. But if you have 66 PSI "at" the shower valve it would let a lot of water through. The problem is the friction loss in the pipes means you are probably only getting 20 PSI or so to the mixing valve.

Ideally it would be best to increase the pipe size. I don't know that 1.5" would help any over 1", but larger pipe has less friction loss. However, in most cases pulling in a new 1" or 1.5" line to the shower is not practical or even possible. Your only option is to boost the pressure. If you have 60 PSI friction loss at 10 GPM, you just need a pump that can boost from 40 to 100 PSI when the shower is on. A constant 100 PSI from a Cycle Stop Valve would push a lot of water through the shower head.
 

Gregmech26

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The water heater is always set to the MAX, and I always take very hot showers. Someone suggested I might have a faulty mixing valve or cartridge? I'm not about to attempt to undo anything, as I am an amateur. And I don't know how to use an Allen wrench.

By the way, I used a 2 gallon bucket for 60 seconds. It filled up 3 times almost.
 

Gregmech26

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Anyone have a guess as to why the pressure was so much stronger 10-years ago? I remember plumbers use to come in and watch in amazement at how strong my shower was. Obviously something "happened" in the last 10 years. Perhaps when they installed the new water heater some piece got stuck in the copper pipe?

Anyways, any suggestions or recommendations on a product, or where to purchase a product that features a "constant 100 psi from the cycle stop valve?" Installation? Price?

Many thanks.
 

Reach4

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Got ya.

So you know the options. To me, the best option to meet your expectations is to get the hot water line replaced with 3/4 or even 1 inch PEX. The dry wall work to close up the ceiling will not be terribly expensive. Maybe you could use new paint, so get the pipe installed, drywall fixed, and repaint.

Then do you also need a new mixer? I don't know.

I think adding a pump system will add noise and become a maintenance item.

Obviously something "happened" in the last 10 years. Perhaps when they installed the new water heater some piece got stuck in the copper pipe?
When they put in the new WH, have them put a pressure gauge on the output line. Pressure gauges are cheap.
 
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Valveman

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Something could have gotten in the pipes, the pipes could be smaller ID from some kind of buildup, and the water heater itself can be a restriction. Or it could be a combination of all the above. Either way the line to the shower is restricted.

Here is a good booster pump.
http://www.lockewell.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_3_86&products_id=1788

Here is the PK1A kit with the CSV1A and everything you need. Because of the higher pressure I would opt for the 10 gallon size tank and a GHG2 pressure switch.
https://cpkits.com/collections/frontpage/products/custom-pk1a-pside-kick-kit
 

Cacher_Chick

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The backflow preventer on the hose spigot is not going to cause a reduction in flow. It is a safety device to prevent contaminated water from being siphoned up the hose if there is problem that causes loss of pressure in the distribution system.

Most cartridge style shower valves have only a very small port for the water to flow through, so using a larger pipe will not correct the issue of the shower valve restriction.
 

Gregmech26

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Thank you for the responses!

I watched some YouTube videos where they simply drilled a huge hole in the cartridge to allow more water through it, as opposed to the tiny hole most of the cartridges have. Is that feasible?

If my existing cartridge already gives me 6 GPM from 72 psi at the water heater, do you still feel the "little hole" in the cartridge wouldn't benefit from larger pipes? I'm basically looking for 2-to-4 additional gallons ( or maybe just stronger psi pressure from the existing 6 gpm I'm already getting). I don't know. I'm an amateur.

The basement was finished in 1997 so it's 20 years old.

So basically my options are the get up to 1.5 inch pipe or to get the booster pump?

What if I were to build a second shower in the basement? Since my water heater has awesome 72 psi, would there be a way to make sure I have close to 72 psi at my new shower head in second shower?

My options:

1. Bigger pipes
2. Booster pump
3. New shower with bigger pipes from water heater
4. Move to new city
 
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Valveman

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#4 is not an option as most cites only supply 50-60 PSI. #1 will help, but if your mixing valve is too small you will lose what pressure you gained from the larger pipe. #3 same thing. #2 is the easiest as a booster pump will push more water through the small pipes and the small mixing valve.

Ideally you would want larger pipes, a larger mixing valve, and no booster pump, but that is not always easy or even possible.
 

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Thank you for the specific answers and your expertise/time.

So I would need all of these?

A booster pump, a PK1A kit, CSV1A, 10 gallon at 70 psi, and GHG2 pressure switch?

Can any plumber install it? Any idea of total price for parts and labor and installation? Maintenance?

I was reading the other day how some cities have over 150+ psi and some cities use "pressure reducing valves" which can be adjusted with the turn of the screw.

In my travels throughout the USA and Canada (also in high rise buildings. hotels, and apartment buildings) I've taken showers that feel twice as strong as mine...where you almost have to hold on to the wall or else you would be knocked down. It is possible to move somewhere else if it comes to that.

Anyways, decisions decisions...


Here is a good booster pump.
http://www.lockewell.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_3_86&products_id=1788

Here is the PK1A kit with the CSV1A and everything you need. Because of the higher pressure I would opt for the 10 gallon size tank and a GHG2 pressure switch.
https://cpkits.com/collections/frontpage/products/custom-pk1a-pside-kick-kit
 

Valveman

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Homes in cites with high pressure like 150 PSI have pressure reducing valves because they HAVE to turn the screw and reduce the pressure or it will blow the toilet fill valve, and the hose to the icemaker off if they didn't. I have designed and built pump systems for hotels and high rise buildings, and they shoot for about 40-50 PSI per floor. The pump system may have to produce 300 PSI to get that 40 PSI to the top floor, but every floor on the way down has it's own pressure reducing valve set to 40 PSI. On the lower floors sometimes you will see really high pressure when the PRV is not holding at 40 PSI like it should. But that is a malfunction, not a design characteristic.

Even 40 PSI is a lot of shower pressure if you can get all the water you need to the 1/2" pipe the shower head screws onto. But when you have restriction such as small diameter and long distance water lines and small mixing valves, a booster pump is the only way to get more pressure and flow to the shower head.

The two links I gave above have pricing for the pump and stuff. The only other things needed are a check valve and a few pipe fittings. A plumber can make short work of the install, and there is basically no maintenance. You might want to look in on the system and maybe check the air in the tank every year or two, but most people don't go back in the pump house until years later if/when water stops coming out of the faucets.
 

Gregmech26

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Thank you! Your contributions are fantastic. I really appreciate the information.

Best wishes everyone.

p.s. - That's why I like to stay in older hotels, because once they've been "remodeled" the shower pressure is significantly reduced compared to the 1970's and 80's. Just my humble opinion :)
 

Gregmech26

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I'm finally ready to do this; however, the plumber that my neighbor recommended didn't show up at our appointment for the second time! That's pretty bad business. He's now not even responding to my phone calls.
Even if i didn't call him to find out why he didn't show, you think common courtesy would have him call me on his own to apologize since this is the second time he stood me up without notice. He seemed so interested and knowledgeable that it doesn't make sense.

Anyways, all I need to do now is find a qualified master plumber that doesn't charge and arm-and-a-leg (like the guys who adveretise on television) to give me an estimate.

My most recent recording at the water heater gave me 78 PSI. When I turn the shower on it is reduced to around 72 PSI.
I suppose I would need a 100 gallon water heater with a pump that accepts incoming psi at 80 psi that will produce outgoing psi of around 120 psi. (Unless it's the heat traps / dielectric nipples causing a restriction on my 2014 Bradford White "fast-recovery" 50 gallon water heater)?

The hot water runs out after 10 - 12 minutes.
My shower head puts out 5 to 6 gpm.

I grew up on shower pressure that was strong enough that you didn't need to use a washcloth. Plus, we use to hear "hammering" all over the house in our copper pipes; however, ever since the city installed their new water tower the hammering is completely non-existent, which to me indicates the pressure obviously declined significantly.

We have no pressure-reducing-valve in our house which was built in 1987 with copper pipes.

Anyways, I will see what the master plumber says when I find one willing to give a free estimate.
 

PumpMd

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Take that water saver device and try modifying the hole for less than your 6gpm. You decreased your flow velocity by increasing the gpm output on your shower head.

Very High Pressure will cut the skin(car wash)

Very High flow velocity can knock you down(fire hose)

Bigger pipe will increase your PSI at shower head. The 1/2" line at the end of your run will increase your flow velocity going out the shower head. Just like putting your thumb over the end of your garden hose to reduce your flow, but it will increase the flow velocity.
 

Gregmech26

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Take that water saver device and try modifying the hole for less than your 6gpm. You decreased your flow velocity by increasing the gpm output on your shower head.

Very High Pressure will cut the skin(car wash)

Very High flow velocity can knock you down(fire hose)

Bigger pipe will increase your PSI at shower head. The 1/2" line at the end of your run will increase your flow velocity going out the shower head. Just like putting your thumb over the end of your garden hose to reduce your flow, but it will increase the flow velocity.

Thank you. I understand what you're saying and tried that, but unfortunately for me it made it worse. I am looking for the maximum pressure/flow (car wash and fire hose) combination that I used to enjoy for the last 30-years.

For example, this would be heaven:


It was so strong I used to have a big "blob" of water coming out the shower head rather than the individual streams of strong that you can see in the video.

At 80 psi at my water heater, I only have half that water pressure seen in the first video.

Also, when our new water heater was installed 3 years ago I could take 18 minute hot showers. Then after one year elapsed, I could only take maximum 15 minute hot water showers. Then after two years, it was reduced again to only 12 minutes of hot water.
Now at year 3 it is reduced to only 10 minutes of hot water showers.

Same shower head. Sam water heater.

Makes me think something is up with the water heater? At this rate, next year I will only be able to take 8 minute hot showers when my water heater turns 4 years old

I wonder what is causing this reduction?

I think the pump/tank combo that was suggested is my best option (barring a new water heater without the heat trap restriction).
 

Reach4

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Makes me think something is up with the water heater? At this rate, next year I will only be able to take 8 minute hot showers when my water heater turns 4 years old

I wonder what is causing this reduction?
Get a water pressure gauge. Check the pressure on the WH drain during a shower.

Check the pressure at the lavatory hot during a shower. How? Get an adapter for the aerator thread to mount the gauge. Try searching with a search engine. aerator ght adapter could be a starting search.

How does this help? Identifying where the pressure drops lets you fix stuff. If the pressure was 30 psi at the tank drain, and 66 psi at your incoming cold, the input to the WH would be a good place to start. Easy thing: is the valve open all of the way? From there it gets harder, but not that hard.

If the WH drain is 63 psi, but the lav is 40 psi, you would look at the output of the WH or farther along.
 

LLigetfa

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More pressure will likely give you more GPM and result in shorter showers. 80 PSI is the max pressure that most codes allow. As a civil libertarian, you can choose to ignore it but you might start having issues such as the TPR relieving.
 

Valveman

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Also, when our new water heater was installed 3 years ago I could take 18 minute hot showers. Then after one year elapsed, I could only take maximum 15 minute hot water showers. Then after two years, it was reduced again to only 12 minutes of hot water.
Now at year 3 it is reduced to only 10 minutes of hot water showers.

Same shower head. Sam water heater.

Makes me think something is up with the water heater? At this rate, next year I will only be able to take 8 minute hot showers when my water heater turns 4 years old

I wonder what is causing this reduction?

I think the pump/tank combo that was suggested is my best option (barring a new water heater without the heat trap restriction).

Sounds like your water heater is filling up with deposits. Mine does that and I have to flush out a BUNCH of hard water deposits that break off the heating elements and fill up the WH tank.
 
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