Small Plumbing Lines

[PumpMd]

I guess I'm just going to show everyone how to design a system to work at lower pressures because if you can't run multiple facets at the same time on 40-60 with a 10gpm pump or better, your plumber only worked on city plumbing lines and he had to learn his lesson the hard way on a well pump system here.

First thing I'm going to do is change my 5gpm pump out with a 10gpm pump.

I'm going take out my 1/2" plumbing lines that can't run multiple facets when flushing the toilet and running the shower at the same time.

I've already re-plumbed (first time) at my uncles house on a single 3/4" copper line feeding into 1" Pex-B with inserted brass fittings.

I'm going use 1 1/4 Pex-A this time around as my supply line with 1 1/4 hi-volume tees and elbows and probably reduce to 1" coming up below the floor for my straight run to the fixtures (smaller holes to drill). 1" ball valve, reduce my pipe size to each fixture at the end of my run (very short distance from ground level to fixture).

Since, I got 13gpm flow with my other well pump. I'll be limited to my Service Flow Rate from my Water Softener and I will fix that in the future to match my Hi-Volume low pressure design(Old school design)

I also have a dishwasher for extra water usage. I need to add a line for my refrigerator and going to my kitchen sink for a water tap (that will be RO water going to those).

I was thinking about adding a grundfos recirculating pump as well. But, I wanted to see what it would do on my kiddos bathroom first before I spend the extra money.

I've had up to 7 people living here. 6 adults and just one kid at that time. Heavy water usage on the washing machine. Now, 2 adults and 2 kids.

 

[PumpMd]

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/50gal-us-craftmaster-water-heater.69983/

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

It is not always practical or even possible to increase the line sizes all the way through the water heater to the shower. You wouldn't need gas or even a larger water heater if you boost the pressure.

 

[PumpMd]

I've seen enough problems with high pressure on lines, especially copper lines. My type of lines are a hard poly like lines around 40 years old . I'm going for 20-40 pressure settings to work both showers and flush both toilets at the same time with no problems. Maybe I want to run a dishwater or the washing machine at the same.

 

[Valveman]

I've seen enough problems with high pressure on lines, especially copper lines. My type of lines are a hard poly like lines around 40 years old . I'm going for 20-40 pressure settings to work both showers and flush both toilets at the same time with no problems. Maybe I want to run a dishwater or the washing machine at the same.

Copper, Pex, CPVC, and other pipe can handle really high pressure. Working at 100 PSI is not a problem for the pipe. However, water hammer from the pump cycling on and off and/or too many check valves causes tremendous pressure spikes in the system (10 times normal) that can damage pipe and fittings.

On those videos you made about too many check valves, when the pump comes on and you see and hear that little "sssvt" of pressure come out the open faucet, that is a major pressure spike that can damage pipe.

 

[PumpMd]

When I see the same problems with only one check valve because it doesn't get an extra check below 200'. Cycling or extra check valves are not the problem because I see plenty of 30+ year old systems still working at low pressures to this day with lots of cycling from a 20gal tank.

 

[Valveman]

When I see the same problems with only one check valve because it doesn't get an extra check below 200'. Cycling or extra check valves are not the problem because I see plenty of 30+ year old systems still working at low pressures to this day with lots of cycling from a 20gal tank.

Cycling and/or too many check valves is nearly always the cause of the problem. 20/40 pressure switch with an above ground check valve can cause 400 PSI surges with every pump start.

 

[PumpMd]

When I see city water lines with high pressures causing leaks all the time here. I think it's obvious what the problem is (high pressure on their lines).

 

[Valveman]

When I see city water lines with high pressures causing leaks all the time here. I think it's obvious what the problem is (high pressure on their lines).

Cities don't usually have high pressure. And if they do most people use a pressure reducing valve to set the pressure limit to the house. I don't now why you would be seeing copper tube leaking with city pressure unless the Chlorine is too high causing an acidic condition, or if the water hammer from those big pumps starting and stopping is surging the pressure, which I see all the time.

 

[Terry]

Most plumbers will only run two items at a time on 1/2".
So for a full bath, you would be running a 1/2" hot for the lav and tub, and 3/4" for the lav, tub and toilet.
A kitchen sink with dishwasher gets a 1/2" line.
A clothes washer when it comes on takes a lot of water. It's nice if those are on their own 1/2" line.

Water pipe sizing

 

[Craigpump]

Is that faucet or facet?

 

[PumpMd]

The city uses booster pumps on the main lines, I wasn't talking about the PRV or the copper pipes in the house.

The only reason I even mentioned copper was to get the same flow and pressure as my cold Pex line(most people don't know how to work with Pex). I know 3/4" Pex is big mistake coming out my hot water tank. 3/4" copper would be alot better and it would work on 30-50 to 40-60 but it's still not what I want to match my design. 1" copper would get it done (1" Pex wouldn't work for what I want). I can run alot of fixtures at the same time with my design (this is what people want).

 

[Valveman]

I agree bigger pipe is better. But I have the standard 3/4 and 1/2 copper lines in my house and I can run a lot of fixtures at the same time because I have strong constant pressure to push water through those lines. A booster pump may not be needed if you have big lines in the house. But nobody has 1" lines and adding a booster pump means they don't have to re-plumb the house.

 

[PumpMd]

They have 1" copper lines and 3/4" copper lines here and they don't need a booster pump or constant pressure. Especially, a VFD compared to a CSV (pretty cheap) and not a waste of money like the other two. I see the reason why to use them on small Pex lines. But, nothing else since a tradition system works just fine and has proving itself for many decades to give the longest life to your submersible pump. Leaks on a house are pretty expensive with constant pressure from a small tank(fix leak right now). You either cycle after every 1gal used on a leak or you keep your submersible pump running all the time and why the old tradition system pays for itself when nobody does maintenance. Especially, when you use a big tank (fix asap gives you time to fix the leak and doesn't give you a costly electric bill).