New Drain lines in bathroom - does it look right?

[Daniel A]

Hi folks. I recently had some plumbing work done in my house. All the drain lines were redone in the bathroom do to age and a move of the lav from one side of the room to the other. This is what it looks like now (see pictures). There is one main 4" vent stack that goes to the roof. The toilet, lav and shower are all vented from this.

You'll see in the pictures that there is an old 2" vent stack that was not used. This used to be the vent for the shower. When the lav moved from one side of the room to the other ( a distance of about 4 feet) it ended up under this 2" vent.

1. I'm wondering why the plumber didn't use this 2" stack to vent the lav.
2. Does this setup work as far as venting goes?

The bathroom remodel isn't finished. We are currently using the toilet but not the lav and shower. Because of this, I haven;t been able to test the drains for the shower and lav to make sure they drain right. The wall behind the lav is open and I have access to that old 2" vent and want to make sure the venting is done properly as it is. If not, I think I can tie in and vent through the old 2".

Thoughts? Don't be afraid to tell me it's totally wrong. If so, I'll go back to the plumber and have them redo it.

 

[Stuff]

You don't have a plumber, you have a hack. Any options for getting in someone who knows what they are doing?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Daniel A]

OK. Can you give me some more information so that I can go back to them well informed. I had a feeling it wasn't right.

 

[DanielAZ]

A little background. This was done by a large licensed plumbing contractor here. It's been an altogether shocking and awful experience. This was done by one of their technicians who clearly is inexperienced. Crazy thing is, it was signed off on by their general manager. I'm trying to figure out what to do. They've been paid half of the total amount up front and I've withheld the rest until it's done right. At this point I may refuse to pay and go with someone else. If you guys say it's wrong, my next step is to contact the Registrar of Contractors to file a complaint and try to recover my funds. Don't think I can trust this company to do this correctly.

 

[Stuff]

Is this to be inspected?

I am not a pro so there is probably more wrong than what I list here.

Lav needs vent above. If done correctly would then provide wet vent for shower.
Abandoned vent should be capped if not in use.
Shower drain trap looks to be too low (>24") and joins lav with san-t on its back.
Need long sweep ell when going from vertical to horizontal.
Combination fitting for lav/toilet/vent/main can't be used in that position.
"Vent" is horizontal below flood level of fixtures.
Vent has rubber coupling. Needs metal unless buried.

 

[DanielAZ]

Ok got all that. Thanks for taking the time to look at it and respond. I really appreciate it.

It turns out they didn't get a permit to do the work. Again, shocking and awful experience.

Anyone else have any comments or anything to add??

 

[Cacher_Chick]

You do have a mess there. I doubt if any licensed plumber was involved with that job.

In addition to what was mentioned above, the fitting tying the toilet drain, lav/shower drain, and building drain is wrong, as is the "vent" as it is connected.

 

[Daniel A]

Well, so far you've confirmed my fears. I don't know how a large plumbing company can send out a hack like this.

I'll do some drawings of different options of redoing it and show them here for feedback. At this point, my thought is to bring someone else in to redo the job. Not sure what that means for the money I've already sunk into this.

Keep the comments coming. If anyone has some suggestions for rerouting this mess, I'd love to see it.

Thanks again. This site is invaluable and I only wish I had found it before this job began. With the information I've gained from this site, I could have done this job better than the hack that I hired.

 

[Kreemoweet]

Get a permit for the work, and get it inspected. Trying to cheap out and avoid permits, in most states leaves you
with NO legal recourse, i.e. you cannot sue and you cannot register a complaint. Of course, the plumbing "contractors" are fully aware of that.
Good luck trying to get those crooks to fix that mess.

 

[DanielAZ]

Not getting a permit was not my idea. As the customer who hired a licensed contractor I made the (now foolish) assumption that all work was done legally and to code including pulling permits. None of this had anything to do with cheaping out. Quite the opposite, I would say.

I only found out a few days ago that they never pulled a permit and therefore did not have an inspection. To make a long story short, this work was done after I purchased the home but before I moved in. It was an extremely busy time for me. I have limited experience with contractors and usually do most work on my home myself. This is a hard lesson learned and it's a mistake I'll never make again. That being said, I thought I was smart and protected by hiring a licensed professional. Clearly, that is not the case. Hence, the lesson learned.

 

[Daniel A]

Here are some drawings I did last night. There are two options for connecting to the existing 2" vent and using the 4" vent to vent the toilet. There are two variations of the lav/ shower venting. I'm not sure which one is right (if any.) I also have two variations on venting the toilet. I like version A better. The bathroom is very small. The distances between fixtures is pretty short.

Thoughts?

 

[CountryBumkin]

Are you sure you have a 4" main line? It doesn't look twice as big as the 2" line connected to it.
A 4" ABS pipe has a 4.5" OD. and a 2" pipe has a 2.38" OD. A 3" ABS pipe is 3.5" OD.
Just asking...

 

[DanielAZ]

Im almost certain it is. The big vent near the toilet is 4" but it's possible it's been reduced at the drain somewhere. I'd have to go down there and check. I don't know if this makes a difference but the house is a 1922 bungalow.

 

[Gary Swart]

I think you should see an attorney right now. You should get back all of the money you paid already, and the cost of having a real plumbing company do the job right. Assuming everything you describe is true, this company is operating way out side of the law.

 

[MKS]

This link will help with fitting use and more.
http://www.co.lincoln.or.us/sites/d..._-_helpful_hints_residential_construction.pdf
You seem to be close to a wet vented bathroom group.

 

[Sylvan]

Once you hear the word "technicians" RUN and get person that has a "plumbing " journeymen card / license or better yet a Master plumbers license as a lot a unscrupulous contractors to beat licensing laws will use the word "tech"

If the contractors was honest they would advertise under "tech" rather then a profession that requires a license

Was the installer a dental tech or possible an X ray tech or an electronic tech or is he a stumble bum that some plumber gave them the title tech so they could charge more and make the person without any formal "plumbing" training feel good about themselves

I have made an amazing living working as an expert witness testifying against "techs" dabbling in a skilled profession

Always ask to see the license of the person doing the actual work as the license is for your protection when you have to bring them before the licensing board

 

[Daniel A]

Ok like I've said, the lesson is learned. I'm smart enough to not make the same mistake twice and I certainly will know what to look for in the future.

Here's what I've done today. I called the city to verify that a permit was never pulled. It wasn't. I talked to the inspection department and they told me that I should still pull a permit and schedule an inspection. I can give them the bid and contract that was given to me by the "plumbing" company I hired so they can have a record of the job. When the inspector comes and fails the work, I can have some recourse to getting the job done properly.

I also called the plumbing company that did the work and told them what I will be doing. They told be that they don't always pull a permit if the work is a "re-do" of previous old work. That sounds like crap to me. I also asked about the credentials of the plumbers that work for them. They told me that in AZ plumbers do not need a journeyman card or Master Plumber certification to work as a plumber. They said that they can work under the license of one master plumber. Clearly, I hired the wrong company to do the work. At least now, I'm on my way to getting things corrected.

In the meantime, I could use a little feedback on my drawings above. I'd like to be able to tell them, "This is how it SHOULD be done." MKS, thanks for the link above. This is definitely helpful but doesn't answer all my questions. Am I on the right track with my diagrams above??

Thanks again for taking the time to help out. At this point, I don't think I need to hear any more comments about how bad this plumber is. That fact is quite clear.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

The one big thing in your drawings, (and also something which your contractor did not seem to understand) is that no vent can run horizontally below the flood rim of the highest fixture connected to the vent. In most places the standard rule is that the vent must be vertical until it reaches a point at least 42" above the floor, after which point it may turn vertical (with pitch to drain) as needed to get to a point in the structure where it can continue to go vertical through the roof.

 

[DanielAZ]

I have read that. It is clear the tech who did the work didn't understand that. Can you point out in my drawing where there's a horizontal vent?

Thanks!

 

[MKS]

I would ask if you can create the jog in the two inch vent that is close to the lav using a pair of 22.5, 30 or 45 degree elbows to address the horizontal vent. I believe I have read here that up to 45 degrees from vertical is considered vertical.
If that is acceptable you may not need to use the four inch vent by the toilet and may then be close to a wet vented bathroom group.
Are you certain the four inch vent near the toilet is just a vent?
It may help to redraw drawing a with specific fittings and pipe sizes so those who know can give better answers.