Pump Installation Materials ????

[ImWell]

Thanks for all the GREAT Advice from my previous post !!!

What I have is a well bored to 180' with a static water level at 50 feet with 100+ gpm, PVC casing was used to bedrock.

I am planning on installing a 3/4 hp pump to 125 feet and coming out of the wellhead to a small 8x8 well house structure, then installing the pressure tank in an insulated space 2 feet below grade recessed under the floor of the well house. From the well house to the future house build site is about 100ft. I decided on a 3/4 hp pump due to 3 reasons, 1) Possible future need for water irrigation for tree nursery, 2) Wanting to use an upgraded shower in the home. 3) It seems 3/4 was the MOST recommended without overkill.

I need some input on materials to use....as it seems I am getting estimates from companies using a lot less quality materials...Simply, I want to install the pump system, locate it in and below grade in a structure and provide unencumbered access to avoid burying a pressure tank, which is another issue I am not comfortable with.

While a lot of you guys here recommend using, (as I do and prefer) a higher schedule 120 or 160 psi 1.25 PVC as the drop pipe material. Two pump installers have estimated the job at 3000.00 using the thin walled 1" black rolled pipe, and I am not convinced that the thinned walled black pipe is adequate for the job over the long term. One estimate was for a Grandfos 3/4 pump which is good, the other was for a Jacuzzi pump, not even made anymore from what I am told.

The well structure is about 8x8 with access in the floor to the pump system and the structure will be wired with 120 and 230 circuits with shutoffs. I could use a Pitless install or just protect the well head from freezing and plumb directly into the bottom of the well house.

Correction of the attached drawing: The well tank is going to be located inside,,,the pump of course in the well.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks

 

[Reach4]

other was for a Jacuzzi pump, not even made anymore from what I am told.

It is possible that was a reference to a Franklin J-Class pump. The J stands for Jacuzzi -- at least it originally did.

Nice plans. I see the casing extends above the ground. Search for "polyiso" in this site for some insulation ideas. I am not a pro.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

You still haven't told us how many GPM and at what pressure the shower needs. You are not going to be happy with a 10 GPM, 3/4HP pump if the shower needs 14 GPM at 50 PSI. And that is not counting on anything else running at the same time as the shower. You need a large enough pump to deliver the flow and pressure required.

Then the larger the pump, the more important a Cycle Stop Valve is, as it will make the pump work like a small pump when needed. Without the CSV you would need a much larger pressure tank, and it doesn't look like you have the room.

The submersible pump will be in the well. And the CSV and pressure tank will be where you have labeled "well pump below frost line".

Sch 120 and 160 class PVC are completely different animals. Do not use class 160, 200, or even sch 40 in the well. Sch 80 and sch 120 are thick enough to thread, and either will work fine for drop pipe. I recommend metal couplings of some kind, not threaded PVC to connect the pipe.

160# or 200# poly pipe will also work for well pipe. Just make sure to use long brass or SS barb fittings with two hose clamps, as that is the weak link.

 

[ImWell]

Hello Valveman,,,,,Still looking and researching on the GPM and Pump hp sizing,,,,and you certainly have a point on the gpm,,,relative to what the shower needs....I mainly just want an upgraded shower with some extra heads,,,(larger main shower head and some placed up the wall),,,,,,,and possibly will end up with an engineered system with water/air pumps integrated,,,unsure at this point, there are a lot of choices....Any recommendations there ???

This is for a smaller but upscale mountain cabin,,,so the bath and shower pressure is key and added pluses for resale.

I got your point on the CST application and I understand you like the system benefits.

On the schedule of pipe,,,,I was referred to schedule 80 or 12o, thicker pipe, so threading would not be an issue and with higher psi ratings than what I am being estimated.....Everyone, I speak to here are using the much cheaper and really thin walled black poly,,,,and using 1 inch,,,,reducing it from 1.25 out of the pump....

 

[Reach4]

I understood you to using a submersible pump. Your diagram shows a non-submersible, but it is good that you have upgraded your plans.

It is my impression that a 1/2 HP submersible will pump as well or better than a 1 HP jet pump

 

[Idaho2]

With the size of your pump house why dig a pit. This is what I'll be setting up in the next two months. I just ordered a 9x9 SIP building, 6" wall and roof, with an R21 insulation rating. All plumbing 4" and 2" electrical conduit under the foundation up thru pump house slab, with a light and wall heater. The floor will be sloped to a center floor drain. Stubbing out three separate 4" conduits for future home, shop and frost free hydrants. Each outgoing water supply will have a ball shut off valve. The well head is 12' away and a pitless adapter 48" below grade and 1.25" poly line to the pump house. By keeping the well head clear of any building I or future owners can use the same well head to drill deeper (120') to hit a larger vein. Presently 53' @ 47gpm. All my plumbing will be 12" from any wall to make it easier to work on if needed. My location is North Idaho for this pump house where I have a 30" frost line.

Idaho2

 

[ImWell]

Idaho2,,,The purpose of the subsurface install is protect the pressure tank and system from freezing. Whether I use a pitless adapter install or only place the pressure tank and plumbing in the below grade part, it will be much more protected than an at grade on the floor level of the well house. It can be heated if needed.

In your case a 9x9 SIP building will cost a heck of a lot more than my building, when compared to my using Polyiso at R25 per 3.5 inches. Plus I will be able to integrate some solar controllers, inverters and a gas/propane generator and some other storage into the same building without losing any floor space to a pressure tank and plumbing.

In my case, I plan on doing the pump install and zoning stipulates the well house can be over the well head, if it's not all structures have to be 25 ft away and require separate permits. A well house,,,here does not have to be permitted. So its a cost saving measure by placing the well head in the footprint of the structure, giving me a direct shot from well head into the well house,,,so why not drop the pressure tank at or lower than the 24 inches frost line. Plus the post located at the well house will provide a winch point for the install and future maintenance and the added benefit of a mount location for a 70 watt led security light and surveillance.

It may sound like overkill,,,,but if I have to locate the pressure tank,,,,run power,,,,might as well get the best return on the investment by utilizing every square foot.

 

[Valveman]

You won't lose any floor space with the little tank made possible by a Cycle Stop Valve. The 4.5 gallon size tank, CSV, and controls will fit in a
14" X 14" X 24" area, and comes with mounting brackets to hang up high on a wall.

What I don't like about vaults is the condensation. You really need a fan and vent to keep the condensation from corroding the pressure switch, tank, and anything else in the pit.

 

[Idaho2]

Idaho2,,,The purpose of the subsurface install is protect the pressure tank and system from freezing. Whether I use a pitless adapter install or only place the pressure tank and plumbing in the below grade part, it will be much more protected than an at grade on the floor level of the well house. It can be heated if needed.

In your case a 9x9 SIP building will cost a heck of a lot more than my building, when compared to my using Polyiso at R25 per 3.5 inches. Plus I will be able to integrate some solar controllers, inverters and a gas/propane generator and some other storage into the same building without losing any floor space to a pressure tank and plumbing.

In my case, I plan on doing the pump install and zoning stipulates the well house can be over the well head, if it's not all structures have to be 25 ft away and require separate permits. A well house,,,here does not have to be permitted. So its a cost saving measure by placing the well head in the footprint of the structure, giving me a direct shot from well head into the well house,,,so why not drop the pressure tank at or lower than the 24 inches frost line. Plus the post located at the well house will provide a winch point for the install and future maintenance and the added benefit of a mount location for a 70 watt led security light and surveillance.

It may sound like overkill,,,,but if I have to locate the pressure tank,,,,run power,,,,might as well get the best return on the investment by utilizing every square foot.

 

[Craigpump]

You won't lose any floor space with the little tank made possible by a Cycle Stop Valve. The 4.5 gallon size tank, CSV, and controls will fit in a
14" X 14" X 24" area, and comes with mounting brackets to hang up high on a wall.

What I don't like about vaults is the condensation. You really need a fan and vent to keep the condensation from corroding the pressure switch, tank, and anything else in the pit.

Vaults/pits are terrible to work in. Too much moisture that corrodes electrical connections, ladders made from 2x4's that rot steel tanks that rust, spiders, crickets, snakes, rats and then there is OSHA to deal with....