Cannot find my PRV valve Help Please

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Redlambo

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Hello just joined the forum and looking for help in finding my PRV valve. First let me start with the details I live in a 30 year old 1600 sq/ft raised ranch on a concrete slab, copper plumbing inside finished basement, City of Grayson Georgia water. Lived in the house 11 years the problem started when the city hired a contractor to replace the lines from the main to the meter. The day after they replaced the line I lost water volume not pressure IE turn a faucet on OK, turn two on not OK, flush toilet and faucets slow to a dismal trickle.

I had the city water dept come and check on things. Pressure before meter 150 psi flow 30 gal/min, test pressure at house 60 psi flow 3.5 gal/min. Theory the contractor got sediment in the line and it plugged the screen on the PRV valve. Fine only with one exception I cannot find the valve.

I have never seen a water shutoff nor a PRV valve in the house. I have checked the basics nothing at the water tank I knew before I even looked because I changed the tank the first year I lived there. When I changed the tank I had to shut the water off at the curb.

I traced the cold line back ten feet running parallel with the cellar hall but instead of turning ninety and going towards the front of the house it goes towards the back into the back laundry room down the wall and I believe into and then under the slab only to run I suppose towards the front of the house.

I checked down the laundry room wall with a Ridgid, Seesnake optical camera no sign of the valve. I dug up after the meter box no sign of the valve within 5 feet of the box. The line running from the meter to the house is 1" PVC, all the household plumbing is copper.

I have checked the walls with metal detectors, stethoscopes, Seesnake optical devices but have come up empty handed (other than a drywall spatchula to patch the holes).

I do not know where to go next, my thought is to dig the line up from the meter box to the house. If I do not find anything, then shut the water off at the meter and cut the line. Run a fish tape inside until it stops, at least I will know I either hit a elbow or the PRV valve.

The only other thing I can think of is trying to back-flush the entire water system and flush out any debris trapped at the inlet screen to the PRV valve. Any other suggestions are more than welcome. It is very, very, aggravating when you had great water pressure/volume, then along comes a bunch of yoyo's and its gone as well as them and you have to deal with it. Thanks in advance, Sincerely Vic
 

Bob NH

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Presumably you can find where the pipe enters the house. Check the pressure in the laundry room. If that is 60 psi then the PRV is before you get there. You can get a gauge that goes onto a faucet.

It may be that the regulator is underground somewhere.

I found a water line under a concrete floor where I wasn't looking for it with a thermal imaging camera when I was doing a thermal survey. It was amazing how it showed up. Of course we have 34 degree water coming in when the lake is frozen over.

I would suspect that the regulator might be in the vicinity of the meter pit. A metal detector might be able to find the pipe in the basement floor if it is copper, which it probably is from 30 years ago.

There should be a large ground wire from the main electrical panel to the water supply pipe if it is a copper pipe. Those connections are supposed to be made within a few feet of where the line leaves the house.
 

Ian Gills

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If you cannot find a PRV, there is always the chance that you do not have one, although if the 130psi reading is correct you probably do.

I do not have one, because my pressure is not too high and this also means I do not need an expansion tank on my water heater because it is not a closed loop system.

Now, if you do not have a PRV what could the problem be? Has the valve been turned fully on? I was a little shocked that you do not have a shut-off in the house. I would fix that straight away. Curb stops are horrible.
 
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Krow

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I'm shocked that you even have 150 psi:eek::eek: I would normaly see anywhere between 50psi at its lowest, to 90 psi at its highest. (depending what part of the country/city/town you are in.

And if it truely is 150psi, you would certainly need that PRV.
 

Jadnashua

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From what I've read, you may need two PRV's in series to handle that large of a pressure difference.
 

Krow

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krow do you live in flat country?

No, the large differences are related to older city mains and concentration of population. And then there are newer areas that are regulated at higher psi. Anything higher than 90psi, the city or town would have Strict regulation for locations of PRV's mostly in high rise buildings (high concentration of population)
 

Redlambo

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First thanks to all for the replies. There must be PRV valve because of the tests done 150 psi & 30 gal/min at the meter and 60 psi & 3.5 gal/min at the spigot.

"Check the pressure in the laundry room. If that is 60 psi then the PRV is before you get there". Although I have not checked the pressure here yet, however I did verify the flow is 3.5 gal/min, so I believe it is safe to assume the pressure is 60 psi.

"There should be a large ground wire from the main electrical panel to the water supply pipe if it is a copper pipe. Those connections are supposed to be made within a few feet of where the line leaves the house."

It is copper plumbing and I have found the ground wire in the laundry room behind a small wall cover that is the same size as a light switch box or duplex receptacle. The box just had a solid cover on it so I removed it thinking I may have found the location of the PRV valve. When I saw the ground wire I thought it may be a jumper ground place between a shut off valve & the PRV valve. I searched around with the Seesnake camera and saw nothing and was puzzled, but know I understand why it is there. The ground wire attaches approximately 4 feet from the slab onto the copper 3/4" water line. I believe that this line then runs under the slab towards the front of the house only to at some point change over to the PVC 3/4" or 1" line that runs to the meter box.

"If you cannot find a PRV, there is always the chance that you do not have one, although if the 130psi reading is correct you probably do.
I do not have one, because my pressure is not too high and this also means I do not need an expansion tank on my water heater because it is not a closed loop system."

I know I have one because of the pressure drop 150psi to 60 psi. Although the funny thing is I do not or have never seen an expansion tank in my system. This seems puzzling because as I understand the PRV valve will also act almost as a backflow preventer. So if that is the case and the system has no means of releasing pressure, that does not make sense?? Wouldn't the pressure skyrocket as water was heated and expanded? Resulting in blown seal or burst pipes?

"Has the valve been turned fully on? I was a little shocked that you do not have a shut-off in the house. I would fix that straight away. Curb stops are horrible. "

Yes I verified that the valve at the meter is fully opened. As far as installing a shut off in the house there may already be one but I just cannot seem to find it. It would seem strange not to install one and where ever it is the PRV valve should be within a few feet of it you would think.

I think my next move will be to remove the portion of sheetrock behind the washer where I believe the copper line enters the slab. That will be an easy enough drywall repair as it is low and inconspicuous. If I find nothing there I guess I will just dig up the entire length of the PVC line in the front yard until I reach the house. If nothing is there, I’ll cut the PVC line and run a fish tape up into it until it stops. When it stops I will have either hit an elbow, shut of valve or the elusive PRV valve.

What do you guys think cut the sheetrock first or start digging? I am opting for the sheetrock as my yard is more like red Georgia clay and rock than soil.

Thanks again all, Sincerely Vic
 

threaderman

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Could go either way.Of course code now is that ALL valves have a min.12" x 12" access.I have found prv's any-where between the meter and the house.On the inside of the home it would be where your service comes in before being distributed through the home,which is a common [best] area.
 

Bob NH

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Is the floor surface visible between where the copper pipe goes into the concrete and a line in the direction of the water meter? Someone could have put the PRV under the floor in a box with a cover. It may have been covered with carpet.

Otherwise, it is probably near the point where the outside pipe converts to copper, maybe just outside the foundation; or near the meter. It would not be rational to put it in a random location in the lawn.
 

Redlambo

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Is the floor surface visible between where the copper pipe goes into the concrete and a line in the direction of the water meter? Someone could have put the PRV under the floor in a box with a cover. It may have been covered with carpet.

Otherwise, it is probably near the point where the outside pipe converts to copper, maybe just outside the foundation; or near the meter. It would not be rational to put it in a random location in the lawn.

No unfortunately not, the copper line enters the slab inside the wall that divides the laundry room and the bathroom. I am going to cut out the sheetrock on this wall and see whats going on here. If I find nothing its not a big deal I will just repair it along with the other two areas I accessed. LOL, my basement walls are starting to look like swiss cheese at least I bought enough touchup paint.
 

bdramsey1

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Interested to see how this turned out, Redlambo. I cannot find mine either. I'm in Lilburn, GA.
Thanks.
 

Reach4

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You definitely want to know where your whole-house water shutoff is.

Interested to see how this turned out, Redlambo. I cannot find mine either. I'm in Lilburn, GA.
You might call these guys, who might be familiar with how things were typically done in your area: https://www.gwinnettcounty.com/portal/gwinnett/Departments/PublicUtilities

Also, maybe ask a long-time homeowner with a home similar to yours.

When you fill the holes, put an access plate over the valve and PRV when you find them.
 

bdramsey1

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Thanks. Amazingly enough, i cannot find the main shutoff inside the house, either. I have just had to use the shutoff by the road in the past. I'm sure it is just hiding behind drywall or possibly over the garage(now a playroom with sheetrock walls). i'm thinking past owners covered it up and did not leave an access to it.
 

Reach4

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Thanks. Amazingly enough, i cannot find the main shutoff inside the house, either. I have just had to use the shutoff by the road in the past. I'm sure it is just hiding behind drywall or possibly over the garage(now a playroom with sheetrock walls). i'm thinking past owners covered it up and did not leave an access to it.
Maybe visit these guys on March 28th, but contacting them in advance is probably wise. Sometimes things change without the websites reflecting that. They may offer some suggestions or assistance.
http://www.stonemountaindiggers.com/about-us.html
 

FullySprinklered

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I'm from Georgia too. Save the red clay adventure for last. Sheetrock is fairly cheap and easy, so I'd go there first. The PRV will be close to the outside wall since it reduces the pressure for everything in the house, except the front outside spigot, maybe others. The spigot will tee off between the main shutoff and the PRV, most of the time, if your house is so equipped.

I've seen quite a few main shutoffs and PRVs hidden in soffits, behind walls, behind water heaters, you name it. Two weeks ago I replaced one (PRV) in a basement bathroom soffit over the bathtub, while standing on a Homer bucket on a kitchen chair. Didn't think I'd need my ladder that day. Had my head and one arm up in the hole working mostly with my fingertips. Pretty sure I left some tools in there, but glad to be done with it.
 

bdramsey1

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Thank you. Couple more questions. I still have not found it, but have not had time to look hard yet. If I have one, and it has gone bad, what if I just put another one on in a more accessible location? Any problems there? Will the high pressure do any damage anywhere while I am waiting to get this repaired? (also, the picture in my profile is not mine, not sure how the flag even got there). fully sprinklered, how did you find the hidden ones? Thanks. Brian
 

FullySprinklered

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Brian. Being able to think like a moron is an important part of my skill set. Turning it off is the hard part. Check under the stairs, under the built-in water heater platform, inside the mystery pilaster in the basement wall, in a meter box behind the holly bushes and Spanish bayonets, etc. I would install another perv if it doesn't show up. Spell check blooper there. PRV.
 

Davis90

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I'm having the same problem as the previous posters. No one can find our PRV. We just moved into a new home that's around 40 years old. We've had two different plumbers come in and say that our problem was the PRV and it needs to be replaced but they can't find it. They tried following the water line from the street to the house, crawlspace, and in the house. We asked the person who sold us the house and he thought it was near the back of the garage but no one could find it there either. Looking for any tips on how we can find this thing.
 

Reach4

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How does the pressure at the outside hose bib closest to the water meter compare to the pressure indoors, while you are flowing some water in the house? If significantly different, then the PRV would be after the tee to the spigot.
 
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