Outdoor sump and pump

[CyF]

My basement opens onto a concrete areaway that's 3 feet below grade. The areaway is 4 feet square. Water comes into the areaway via the steps and sometimes from adjacent areas in heavy rains. I want to install a sump pump below the areaway that discharges around 5 feet straight up and then 20 feet along the sidewall of the house to an area that's pitched away. I'd like to use a 2" pipe for this.

First, I wonder if I should use a sewage pump that can handle solids, since I get leaves, seeds, and whatever blowing into the areaway.

Second, can I keep the discharge pipe dry except when the pump turns on? This would eliminate ice problems in the pipe. I don't know how the pumps are designed, whether the lack of a check valve would cause the pump to cycle constantly.

 

[Terry]

The lack of a check valve causes constant cycling. I've used a 1/3 hp with a 1.5" discharge for stuff like that. It helps if you have a screen or grate to keep out most of the muck. You don't want leaves going through that anyway. When it's warm, you will have water, when it freezes, you won't anything to pump out.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Atomic1]

I just inspected two buildings in the Baltimore area that had similar issues. One was a small office building and they just put a standard pump in a pit in the walkway; used a small slotted grate to filter out debris. I did not see any issues with freezing, but maybe they were just lucky. Water came in elsewhere during the big rain deluge last year.

The second was a single family home and they plumbed a walkway drain to the interior sump pump....they used too small of a drain line and it clogged with leaves. If it were me, I'd probably plumb a large drain from the walkway to a deep sump in the grade to place the pump with check valve. If you have any flow during freezing temps, you'd have to watch out for ice plugging of the outlet but in MD, it shouldn't be too often of a problem.

 

[Balt_Homeowner]

I am curious to know how this worked out for you. I have the same situation in my house in Rodger's Forge (Towson). The original drain is clogged. I'm told it can't be snaked. I cut a small pit in the areaway just big enough for a pedestal sump pump, but the silt clogs it up right away.

Every plumber who has looked has proposed running a new line to the sump pump inside the basement--tearing up the tiled floor in the finished basement just to pump it back outside. Please tell me this isn't just about turning a $1,000 job into a $5,000 job.

My plan is to make a bigger hole in the areaway and sink a plastic pit with a cast iron pump. I would definitely appreciate thoughts on:

-- size of the pit
-- what to look for in the pump
-- size of the pipe
-- how to keep the pump from clogging

Should the pit be perforated to allow it to drain water from the ground, or is this just for what comes from above? I suspect that there may be hydrostatic pressure that is contributing to the water that ends up in the areaway. The back yard slopes toward the house a little bit, and there was originally a canopy over the areaway that has been removed.

The rains seem to be getting heavier, and it doesn't take long for water to overflow the threshold of the basement door. In fact, it's raining again right now.

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My basement opens onto a concrete areaway that's 3 feet below grade. The areaway is 4 feet square. Water comes into the areaway via the steps and sometimes from adjacent areas in heavy rains. I want to install a sump pump below the areaway that discharges around 5 feet straight up and then 20 feet along the sidewall of the house to an area that's pitched away. I'd like to use a 2" pipe for this.

First, I wonder if I should use a sewage pump that can handle solids, since I get leaves, seeds, and whatever blowing into the areaway.

Second, can I keep the discharge pipe dry except when the pump turns on? This would eliminate ice problems in the pipe. I don't know how the pumps are designed, whether the lack of a check valve would cause the pump to cycle constantly.

 

[Reach4]

-- size of the pit

Bigger is better.

size of the pipe

Judge by the connection on the output of the pump. Probably 1.5 or 2 inch. Use a check valve.

-- how to keep the pump from clogging

Should the pit be perforated to allow it to drain water from the ground, or is this just for what comes from above?

Clogging with material from above? An effluent pump can pump some solids, and a grinder pump might do an even better job on solids. I am thinking some kind of screen over the pit could be used to stop sticks etc. With a pump in the yard, how will you keep kids out? Somebody removes a lit, and somebody else falls in.

Maybe a pit designed as a sealed septic pit, with a screw-on lid, would be good. Drill 3/16 holes in the lid to serve as a screen.

Will the pit be placed in gravel, or in dirt? Where will the water go when pumped? What about freezing? Freezing water in a PVC pipe will burst the pipe.

I am not a pro.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

The first thing I would want to know is what kind of drain cannot be cleared? It it is solid pipe (not corrugated plastic or drain tile) and it is not broken/collapsed, chances are that it CAN be cleared.

 

[Balt_Homeowner]

The drain cannot be cleared when the financial incentive for clearing is smaller than for replacing.

I put in a cheap pedestal sump pump so water in the areaway can't overflow the door sill. Then I stuck a garden hose with nozzle and watched the sand and silt flow back out of the drain. Scooped the sand out with my hand. Put the hose back in. Repeated this for about 45 minutes until, Hallelujah! the water went down the drain instead of out the top.

In addition to the sand, I pulled out a good amount of clay. Now I need to snake it out before the remaining sand and clay does "harden like cement" as one of the contractors explained why the drain couldn't be cleared.