Pitless Adapter Question

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MrStoogewrench

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My son just bought a house in eastern PA, and just moved in this past weekend, having spent the previous 3 weeks getting it ready. About 2 weeks ago he had the submersible pump replaced due to low water pressure. This past weekend he was having problems with pressure fluctuating wildly between 25 and 30 lbs, which I found to be really bad connections at the pressure switch. After fixing that, the pressure rose steadily, but very slowly to 50 lbs, and would not go any higher. The switch is a 60/40, so the pump would not shut off. I told him that there was either a problem with the pump or there was a leak somewhere between the pump and the house, and that he should call the people that replaced the pump. They came out later and said that it was leaking at the pitless adapter, and since they had not done any work on it that it would not be a warranty issue. They said that including the current service call (it was a Sunday), the cost to replace the adapter would be around $2000, since they had to bring in their excavator.

Now obviously they had to separate the adapter to get the pump out, and it very well could have cracked during that operation since it was installed in 1982. If they had seen it then they still would have had to excavate and I would expect that cost to be passed on to my son, since it was probably not due to negligence on their part. It just seems that the price is somewhat high, and I can rent an excavator for $300 for the weekend, so we will repair this ourselves.

But my real question is this. I looked down the casing, and from what I can see it looks like the part that is leaking is the pump half of the adapter. Is it kosher to replace just the pump half of the adapter?
 

Reach4

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Pitless adapters vary, so to know what you need to mate with the existing piece could be hard.

These things have O-rings. I am not sure how standard it is to replace the O-ring when replacing the pump.

Some pitless adapters may look like the one below, but not be compatible. Others don't look like the one below.
Install2.jpg
 

MrStoogewrench

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Thanks Reach4, I figured that there may be a problem matching it without removing it first. I want to get over there and pressurize it with air to get a better idea of where the actual leak is, maybe even rig a camera up using 2 cell phones and FaceTime (I know, don't drop the phone down the well!).
 

Reach4

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Also take a mirror to reflect the sun down the well to view with your eyes, if going during the day. At night, use a bright flashlight.
 

Valveman

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The pump guys should have replaced the o-ring when they had the pump out. You don't have to change out the pitless or do any excavating, just pull it up and put in a new o-ring. If the pump half of the pitless was bad, they should have seen that when they had the pump out.
 

MrStoogewrench

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Thanks for the replies. I went over there yesterday to do some testing, but somehow when I lent him a compressor a few weeks back the air hose got left at his old house (kids!). So I couldn't pressure test. The pressure was 40 lbs. when I started. I ran the system with better lighting and couldn't see any signs of leakage inside the casing. I opened two bathroom faucets and a garden hose, and the pressure dropped to 20 lbs, but the flow was constant (no air or dropouts). We pulled the pump up to do a visual inspection. Everything appeared to be in good shape, except that the poly had a very light smearing of dirt mud toward the top (normal?). Time was short so we put the pump back in and hooked all back up and turned the system back on. I didn't really pay attention to how fast pressure was building since we really hadn't done anything. Before I left (after fixing an electrical issue elsewhere, isn't new homeownership wonderful?), the pressure was at 60 and the switch had cut off as it should. We opened 2 faucets and a bathtub and the system was able to keep up, even gaining pressure after the pump kicked on. We then turned on the garden hose as well, and still it kept up. After closing all the valves, it built up to 59, but could not quite get 60. I told my son to keep an eye on it and left. Later he texted that after showers and dishes it would not get above 45.

I asked him to show and explain to me how the pump guys had determined that there was a leak outside the well casing at the pitless adapter. Theyhad pressurized the well-to-house line inside the house, and could hear air sounds at the well head. They seemed to be coming more from the wire conduit than the casing, and squeezing the conduit changed the sound somewhat. This actually made sense to me since the wire and pipe share the same trench, and it appears that the wire was direct-buried without conduit aside from where it comes up the casing. But what I can't wrap my head around is why we had a short-lived normal operation. I am heading back tomorrow (WITH the proper tools!) in investigate further. Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

Also, I don't know how deep the well or static water level is, but the pump is at 70 feet below the pitless adapter. I will try to get a SWL tomorrow.
 

Craigpump

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My guess is that the pitless isn't fully seated into the receiver....take a long bar or piece of pipe and tap down on the 1/2 of the pitless that slides in & out...

$2000.00 seems excessive to me, unless it's a super tough location, or they have to break up frost..
 

Cacher_Chick

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Did you inspect the pump half of the pitless when you had it out? Did you make sure that the correct o-ring was present?

When the pump is running, you should be able to look down the well with a good light and see if it is spraying water inside the casing.
 

MrStoogewrench

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I finally had what I needed when I went there today to air pressure test, and sure enough it appears that there is a leak on the outside of the well casing. My small compressor couldn't keep up enough to maintain even a 10 psi pressure, and there was a strong air sound coming from the electrical conduit at the well, and nothing inside the casing. We dug a small hole down to within about a foot and a half of the pitless and the hole began to fill with water (with the pump running). So I guess I will renting a toy and doing some digging next weekend.

I was a little off with the $2000 cost, that was including the $400 charge for coming out to find the problem. But $1600 still seems high to me since it is easy access and the ground is not frozen (it has been in the 60's and 70's for the past few days here is NJ!).

My next question goes back to the installation of the new pump. They did not replace the down pipe or torque arrestor, and I am not sure about the check valve on top of the pump. Would it be prudent to replace these items when I replace the pitless, or is it common practice to re-use them?

Just for giggles a attached a photo my son took of the pump they took out a few weeks ago.
 

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Cacher_Chick

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Dunno, around here the pitless is 4-6 feet down, and getting a backhoe on site is 500 + 100 an hour for an operator. Another another 500 to pull and reset the pump, and you have not run into any problems yet. It would not be uncommon for the pipe to fail at the connection to the pitless, so then one must consider the possibility of more digging, labor, and material to replace the line.
 

Craigpump

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Dunno, around here the pitless is 4-6 feet down, and getting a backhoe on site is 500 + 100 an hour for an operator. Another another 500 to pull and reset the pump, and you have not run into any problems yet. It would not be uncommon for the pipe to fail at the connection to the pitless, so then one must consider the possibility of more digging, labor, and material to replace the line.

Why would you pull the pump?

Screw the pitless (if needed) to the pipe or adapter then lower it and slip it in the hole.
 

Cacher_Chick

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Why would you pull the pump?

Screw the pitless (if needed) to the pipe or adapter then lower it and slip it in the hole.

I was using general terms. The charge for raising the pipe up high enough to change the pitless is not going to be much different than pulling the whole works.
 

MrStoogewrench

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I suppose that I am being unrealistic when I compare what it would cost for professionals to do it versus doing it myself. There is an equipment rental nearby that has a deal where you can rent a mini excavator within 3 hours of closing on Friday and return it within 2 hours after opening on Monday (they are closed weekends) for 1 day's rental fee, just under $300. That gives me 2 days (weather permitting) to deal with any unforeseen problems. Since the pump is small and hung on only 70 feet of poly, it took two of us about 5 minutes to pull the whole thing out the other day to inspect it, so I figure that I will do the same to change the pump side of the pitless. I am also thinking that even if the leak is not the pitless itself (maybe the barb adapter) that it would be smart to change it anyway since I am already there.
 

Cacher_Chick

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I suppose that I am being unrealistic when I compare what it would cost for professionals to do it versus doing it myself. There is an equipment rental nearby that has a deal where you can rent a mini excavator within 3 hours of closing on Friday and return it within 2 hours after opening on Monday (they are closed weekends) for 1 day's rental fee, just under $300.

I wish I could find a deal like that! We pay that much for delivery and pickup of the machine. They are heavy, so unless you have a suitable truck and trailer....
 

Craigpump

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I wish I could find a deal like that! We pay that much for delivery and pickup of the machine. They are heavy, so unless you have a suitable truck and trailer....

Look on Craigslist and buy one. The aggravation, time and money you save will pay for it in 2 years.
 

Cacher_Chick

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Look on Craigslist and buy one. The aggravation, time and money you save will pay for it in 2 years.

Naa, I would only use it a couple of times a year so I could not justify it. We had hard frost 3 feet down last winter. I see what kind of money it takes to keep such things working properly. Now that the feds have put emissions on diesels, a new landscape dump is running 50k+. One would need to be in that trade to make the numbers work.
 

preppypyro

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We had a similar issue a few years ago at our own acreage. What happened is we didnt use a brass barbed fitting at the pitless, and yep, it cracked and caused the same symptoms. It also happened in january, and I live in Saskatchewan, Canada. It was fun to repair! Well easy to repair, just damn cold! Lucky i own my own small excavation company.

Regarding the cost to dig and replace, I do this kind of work, and I would be at about 1000 dollars give or take, depending how far away from my shop it was, and what the actual issue is. 1600 would be a little high in my neck of the woods, but not TOO bad.

Good luck and I hope you report back when the issue is solved.

Oh and regarding replacing those items you mentioned, what I did for myself is reused them, an for customer repairs i would always recommend that they replace them if they had any doubts. That was more to cover my own butt as I always somehow happened to be "just the backhoe guy" that would end up doing more than my share of the work that i wasnt hired to do haha.
 

Reach4

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Regarding the cost to dig and replace, I do this kind of work, and I would be at about 1000 dollars give or take, depending how far away from my shop it was, and what the actual issue is. 1600 would be a little high in my neck of the woods, but not TOO bad.
I suspect the $1600 quote included the new pitless adapter and other parts. MrStoogewrench gets some quality time with his son by doing the project. I hope to hear of his success, and I hope there are some pictures.
 
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MrStoogewrench

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Quality time = cold beer after the "quality time" is done! Thanks for the "well" wishes, and there will be pictures ! I have a F550 rollback to move various automotive projects, so transport of the machine is not a problem. By the way, Cacher, I couldn't agree more with the "test, don't guess" phrase. I am continually getting frustrated with automotive "techs" who don't know how to troubleshoot.
 
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