Softener, Just need some advice and help...

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Treeman

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I tilt my salt level and don't let my water get much below the low part of the tilt. The way I do it is more effort than needed. I like to keep an eye on it a bit.

Another cool example of one of the great tidbits of learning I have gained from you (and others) from this awesome site. Both at my workplace and at home, I attempt to do a monthly quick check of things with the potential to go awry: HVAC, misc. filters, smoke/CO detectors, etc.. It's called preventive maintenance. "Set it and forget it" is just not my style. Having said that, I kick myself on the occasions that I miss something obvious and pandemonium breaks out, LOL......"the furnace stops working in mid winter....oops, those thermostat batteries require annual changing"!!!

Thanks guys for the great input here.
 

Claybe

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Filling a brine tank is not a problem. Salt type tends to be the main cause of bridging. Some salts are more prone to turning into "cake". Potassium Chloride is notorious for problems.

Regardless, it is a good time to disconnect the brine tank, empty it out, clean and sanitize it.

Hmmmmm...I was using a mortons iron reducing or resin saver or something like that from HD. Should I just be using regular old cheapest salt I can get?!? Man, who knew there were so many variables!!!
 

ditttohead

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Salt... lol. Who thought this could be a complex topic.

Since salt is typically sourced regionally due to high shipping costs, it really depends on your local salt that is available. My former supplier gets its salt from Guerro Negro in Baja California. The solar salt was very clean and we sold millions of pounds per year for softener regeneration. It rarely caused bridging in the thousands of rental softeners we had out in the field. When servicing systems, the pellets were always our roblem units due to the mush at the bottom causing the brine well to not flow water adequately. In larger systems we would put in a gravel bed to prolong the time between brine tank services.

Try the large crystals. These will usually be a little dirtier than the pellets but as long as your local source isn't nasty, it will be fine. Be sure to clean and sanitize your brine tank every few years.
 

Reach4

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I wonder if brine blocks wouldn't be the most resistant to salt bridging. It would not seem to be good for brine-first I think, but most people with brine tanks use brine-last.
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Maybe they could make a brine tank with straight sides or even have a reverse taper. A salt blob could just fall down into the water. You could not nest them, so shipping or storing would be bulky.
img_2.jpg
 
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ditttohead

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Most USA made round tanks are straight sided. The tapered square/rectangle tanks allow for more efficient shipping since they are nestable. And... since salt bridging is not very common, it would be difficult to justify a new tank design to correct a problem that is not likely to occur and is so easily corrected.

Remember, If it is a true "salt bridge", not just compacted mush at the bottom, adding a small amount of hot water will almost instantly correct the problem as the salt will loosen up and fall into the brine tank thus collapsing the bridge. If it is the more common "mush", then a different tank design will not help.
 

Reach4

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Remember, If it is a true "salt bridge", not just compacted mush at the bottom, adding a small amount of hot water will almost instantly correct the problem as the salt will loosen up and fall into the brine tank thus collapsing the bridge. If it is the more common "mush", then a different tank design will not help.
How does mush cause the symptom? If it is mushy salt, the water still gets saturated with salt, right? If it prevented brine from being drawn, then the symptom would be different, right?
 

ditttohead

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The bottom brine well has slots in it that the water flows through. If these are obstructed, it is common for the brine well to fill up with water activating the float assy, this can shut off the refill early causing low salting. The reverse can also occur, the salt can be drawn from the brine well faster than it refills from the brine tank (caused by the mush) thereby causing the aircheck to seat early.

This is more common than salt bridging, though they are often mistakenly considered the same problem.

A salt bridge is fairly rare and very easy to fix.

Story for the day. I once had a 60" wide x 60" tall brine tank bridge. It was quite a shock to see the tidal wave of salt water come flying out of the brine tank when it let loose after using a garden hose to spray the salt for a couple minutes.
The salt bridge was immediately known due to my old school technique of kicking every salt tank as I would start a service call.
 

Reach4

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The salt bridge was immediately known due to my old school technique of kicking every salt tank as I would start a service call.
Ahh... once you had calibrated your foot, it would tell the tale. I had read about a kick as a cure, but not as a diagnostic.
 

Claybe

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There is/was a ton of mush in the bottom of my tank. I had no idea I needed to clean it out. I have had it for 4 years and never cleaned it out. Guess I know what I am doing this weekend! Thanks for the advice.
 

PumpMd

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Another cool example of one of the great tidbits of learning I have gained from you (and others) from this awesome site. Both at my workplace and at home, I attempt to do a monthly quick check of things with the potential to go awry: HVAC, misc. filters, smoke/CO detectors, etc.. It's called preventive maintenance. "Set it and forget it" is just not my style. Having said that, I kick myself on the occasions that I miss something obvious and pandemonium breaks out, LOL......"the furnace stops working in mid winter....oops, those thermostat batteries require annual changing"!!!

Thanks guys for the great input here.


Preventive Maintenance came from my days as a Military Diesel Mechanic in the Army. One thing we would have to is send the motor oil in to be analyzed before we could change the motor oil. They were checking for loss of lubricating properties in the motor oil.
 

Claybe

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We do not drink the water from our well. We only use it for dishwashing and showering and watering the yard, etc. how do I know if I need to remove the iron from the water? I have upped the numbers to help deal with the iron through the softener, but don't know if I really need to add the KL system or not. What will happen if I don't remove the iron?
 

ditttohead

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Iron reduction systems greatly extend the life of the softeners resin but more importantly is the environmental effects. It is very regional. Adding salts to the ground water supply is a concern that should be considered. If your aquafer is virtually unlimited then it is not that critical as the solution to pollution can be dilution "sometimes". In other regions the ground water supplies or municipal reuse of water can be negatively affected by excessive and wasteful salt use. Using a softener to reduce iron is highly inefficient compared to other methods.

Improper application of softeners is one of the reasons municipalities ban them. We want to continue to be able to use them but in may areas this means we must use and install them properly.
 

Claybe

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I have a few questions about iron filters if some one could help me out...

What is the difference between air injection and h202 injection? Which is better and why?
What is the difference between the fleck 2510AIO and the 5600STX?

Still looking into getting an iron filter but we will have to see what the tax return brings lol.
 

ditttohead

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Their are many methods of adding oxidants to the water which assists in changing the ferrous iron to ferric (clear water to a precipitate ie:rust). Oxygen can work but sometimes the effectiveness is marginal. It also adds a lot of air to the house water which gets annoying. We sell a lot of air injection systems, all have the common problem of airy water. H2o2 is more effective but also uses a consumable. It only makes the water in the house a tiny bit airy if it is overdosed. Chlorine is effective but obviously it must be very carefully controlled as high levels of chlorine can be very problematic. Ozone, pot perm, and many other methods are used all with their varying pros/cons. In general, if your budget allows a little extra treatment will usually prove highly effective compared to trying to save some money up front. Many people use h2o2 regeneration systems similar to the old pot perm systems. These have proven to be very effective as cost slightly more than the Air Injection system designs. Iron reduction is highly complex and different treatment methods work under different conditions. It is not like softening which is fairly universal in its application and expectations. Specialized medias can work without an oxidant like manganese dioxide which is used in Katalox Light, Birm, Greensand, Filox, Pyrolox and almost every other iron reduction media. Katalox light has become the primary media since it has a high percentage of manganese dioxide ore while still maintaining reasonable backwash rates. Its primary complaint is its over-stated abilities and the raise in pH that often accompanies the installation of this media. DO, ORP, pH, and much more need to be considered when using KL or any other iron reduction media. The ability to add an oxidant later if needed should be considered when installing any iron reduction system.
The 2510SXT is commonly used as an AIO valve and has decent capabilities. I would recommend it over the 5600SXT.
 

Claybe

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Thanks ditto! So, I could just add the KL iron filter and don't need a h202 system or air system to go with it?

Also, what about the 2510SXT or the 5810SXT? I am having a hard time figuring out the differences in all of these!
 
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ditttohead

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The 5810SXT is a huge advance over the 2510 but it is not meant for online sales.
You can try the KL without oxidant injection and it usually works but... often times it needs some oxidant injection. Sometimes simple air injection is adequate, other times h2o2 or chlorine are needed. We can guess by reviewing the water report but it is only a guess. Even knowing DO, orp, pH, etc, water is much more complex than that. Many times we are simply giving our best educated guess. You may notice that the majority of the tings I say on this site are done without absolute statements. I try to use vague answers to limit the number of problems. Should, might, probably, likely, reduce, mitigate, lessen etc. are all very good words. :)
 
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