Toilet Flange not Flat/Level

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Bacon

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I had a home built about 3 years ago and in the basement we had plumbing roughed in for a bathroom. I just got around to finishing the bathroom and I found that the 4" waste line for the toilet is not straight up and down. It has a forward tilt of about 5deg to it and it's in a poured concrete floor. I talked to the builder, and they say itll be fine because the wax ring will account for the flange that will inevitably not sit flat on the floor.

Can a wax ring really account for a tilted flange? Id like the pipe fixed, but I dont know that I'll be able to get them to break the floor out to fix it. Any sort of code requirements I can hold against them? It was a fairly large and reputable plumbing company that did the rough-in.
 

Bacon

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No. I put a level next to it and over a 12" vertical run of pipe it leaves about a 1" gap between the pipe and the level. That ends up being about 5deg.
 

Reach4

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That's pretty bad. I am not a pro.

I suggest you make a photo that shows the level and the measures. That will make your case better than words.
 

Jadnashua

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Some toilets have varying sizes of their horn which could mean that much out of level could prevent the toilet from sitting on the floor (i.e., rocking on the high side of the flange). A little tilt can be accommodated with the wax seal...you may not get your selected toilet to work if it's that far out. Second point...how close to the optimal 12" rough-in distance from the (finished) wall is the pipe?

If you don't have tile on the floor yet, it may not be all that tough to crack some concrete to fix things. While (IMHO) not particularly professional, the pipe might have been plumb, and then knocked out of whack when they poured the slab.
 

Stuff

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Can you not remove the flange and install a new one level to the floor? There is usually a bit of give when mating pipes. Or you could go with a press in version.
 

Bacon

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There is no flange installed yet, but with pvc, especially 4", there is almost no adjustment to the flange. Yet placement is determined by the placement of the pipe.

I'm traveling right now so I will gabe to upload a picture when I get home. The distance to the wall is fine - I framed the wall but at the time did not closely inspect the pipe for level
 

CountryBumkin

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Does it really matter if the flange is not level? The toilet doesn't actually sit on the flange. The wax ring should be able to compress sufficiently to seal around all sides. As long as the water/material flows down the pipe fully - does the mounting of the toilet care if the flange is 0 or 5 degrees?
 

Reach4

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- does the mounting of the toilet care if the flange is 0 or 5 degrees?
A toilet flange is a about 7 inches OD. A 5 degree tilt would mean one side is 0.61 inches higher than the other.

He is thinking that this is fairly recent construction, and he should not have to deal with this. He thinks the contractor should make it right. He would like to have something to support that.

That would call for expert witness thinking. We tend to be oriented toward a solution to deal with what exists, even if it is a work-around.

Or you could go with a press in version.

This is a marked up snip of a push-tite press-in flange. I would tend to avoid a plastic ring. However the stainless ring version might not have flaps that are as long, so they may not fit this special situation. http://www.siouxchief.com/products/drainage/residential/closet-flanges/pushtite They are also available in white. You don't have to match, because they are not gluing. I chose that photo because of the perspective.
The blue/green lines represent the expected ID of the tilted pipe.
 

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Bacon

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Well said reach. Some misalignment would be fine, even expected with the 1/4" per ft slope of the drain line, but at this level the flange may interfere with the porcelain if I don't recess it into the tile. All doable, but for what I paid to have this roughed-in, I'd prefer not to deal with it
 

Bacon

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here is a photo of the pipe next to a level. The install company is coming out on Monday to look. He had all sorts of excuses/remedies on the phone, but when I told him how far off it was he went silent. I took that as admission that it was excessive. Hopefully they are willing to fix it...

20170215_215318-1.jpg
 

Jadnashua

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Sorry, but neither of the previous two comments are viable! When you try to put a socket onto/into a pipe, once you seat it fully, it will be aligned with the pipe's pitch so while during the solvent welding process you might get a degree or so of play as the plastic melts, there's no way you'd be able to achieve a full-depth seal with it being 5-degrees off. Some toilets tend to have minimal space around their horn, and a flange that far out of level will not allow the toilet to sit flat on the floor.
 

Bacon

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I had a thought over lunch about the push-tite fittings made by Sioux. I'm not a huge fan just based on the fact that I don't know how long the vanes will hold tight, but I was wondering if the vanes could be bonded to the inside of the pipe? I believe the red part in the image below is soft PVC - could I swab the ID of the 4" pipe with PVC cement and then push this in place? In theory the flexible vanes would account for the misalignment and then they would be bonded in place creating a permanent gas tight seal.

Thoughts?

886-gp.jpg
 

Reach4

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I had a thought over lunch about the push-tite fittings made by Sioux.
That is what #6 proposed and that I illustrated in #9 (plus provided a link). I used the black ABS picture because that is what I found. The white Push-tite flange you illustrated would be the same, and either should work the same.

I would not use PVC cement on the gasket flaps. While I would probably use some silicone plumber's grease, I think it is intended that no extra compound is needed.

While I would normally want a flange to have a metal ring, a lot of people use all-plastic fine. The unglued Push-tite flange could be more easily replaced if the ring failed anyway.

I doubt that the red is a PVC. It is flexible, and I would expect some kind of synthetic rubber.
 

Bacon

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I know thats what you suggested, I just didnt really consider them at all until I thought of gluing the fins to the ID.

I can almost guarantee they are PVC. PVC comes in all sorts of durometers - it all depends on how much plasticizer you add. "Vinyl" tubing is PVC. I'm betting it's PVC for a few reasons:

It's considerably cheaper than synthetic/engineering grade materials
It's easier to bond similar materials together than dissimilar ones
It can be overmolded in a 2-shot mold fairly easily

Im going to buy one and try it on a scrap pipe. At $13 it's worth the learning experiment. I'll report back.
 

FullySprinklered

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Yeah, they goobered that installation big time.

You can worry with it and pick at it and even drag Judge Wapner out of bed if you want to, but the fix may be more trouble than it's worth.

Let me see how many people I can piss off with this. Any plumbing inspectors watching should clamp their hands over their ears and go "Lalalalalalalala.................................

Cut the four-inch off level with the slab. Take a toilet flange that fits inside four-inch pipe and saw it off , leaving one inch protruding. Bevel the edge of that with a file or rasp, slather copious amounts of glue on both surfaces and press the flange into the pipe. Tap-con the flange to the slab. Send me a check for $125. All done.
 

Bacon

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I'll eat my words, I made an assumption without fully reading the description. The pushtite is not pvc as reach pointed out. Actually has a better fit than anticipated - if the plumbing company won't fix it, I'll go this route.
 

Stuff

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They also make those with a stainless steel ring on the top. Too many worried that plastic cracks.
 

Reach4

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They also make those with a stainless steel ring on the top. Too many worried that plastic cracks.
Unfortunately for this case, the 887-GPM has a bigger plastic OD and a smaller gasket. So in this case, it is not going to adapt to the big tilt as the 888-GPM does. At least the 887-GPM would be easier to swap, if you broke the plastic ring, than a glued-in flange.
887-gpm.jpg
888-GPM
 
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