7000sxt programming help

Users who are viewing this thread

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
I'm still having problem with this stupid thing. The water is still hard and the amount of salt inside the tank appears to be at the same level. I hear the system regenerating every so often, but for some reason or another, I don't think it's using the salt.

I manually regenerated just now and measured the water level before, during, and after. It appears to go from approximately 7" in a 18"-diameter tank, down to 2" after brine draw, and back up to 7" after brine fill. I normally hear the salt crumbling when I've poured water from the top, but haven't heard it during brine fill. There's a grid at the bottom of the tank and I was wondering if 7" is enough to clear the grid and reach the salt.

I'm going to test the water again tomorrow morning and see if the water is back to being soft.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,796
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
5" differential in a 18"-diameter tank with no salt is about 5 gallons. If you are using 20 minutes BF with 0.25 BLFC, that is 5 gallons.

Sounds to me as if you do have a salt bridge. That would explain your symptoms.:cool:

How full of salt is your brine tank? There are probably write-ups in dealing with a salt bridge. Without searching, I think I would start emptying pellets while you can, and dig after you cannot empty more. Don't put a hole in your brine tank or damage anything else.
 

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
How full of salt is your brine tank? There are probably write-ups in dealing with a salt bridge. Without searching, I think I would start emptying pellets while you can, and dig after you cannot empty more. Don't put a hole in your brine tank or damage anything else.

It's a little less than 3/4 full and I don't think it's changed positions for months. I don't know how many bags of salt I'm supposed to be going through, but that doesn't sound right, and it looks like we've averaging 130 gallons of water a day.

Salt bridges are usually easy to remedy. Just pour 5 gallons of hot water into the brine tank.

I've tried that before, and immediately after, is the only time I get soft water. It leads me to believe that for some reason or another, salt isn't being dissolved into the water at any other times.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,796
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
It's a little less than 3/4 full and I don't think it's changed positions for months. I don't know how many bags of salt I'm supposed to be going through, but that doesn't sound right, and it looks like we've averaging 130 gallons of water a day.

If you regenerated every 9 days, you should have used 15 pounds of salt per per regeneration, or 50 pounds per month. With your low use and with a long DO, you would regen about every 2 weeks, so you should have used a little over 30 pounds of salt per month.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
As you verified the appropriate volume of water is entering the brine tank and is being drawn out during regeneration, that signifies the reason your salt is not being consumed is due to a salt bridge. If the salt is in contact with the water, it will dissolve to a strength of 3lbs per 1 gallon water.

A salt bridge is hardened and caked salt which is suspended above the water line and not in contact with the water. In addition to Ditttohead's recommendation would be to use a broom stick or other tool, to breakup hardened salt, forcing the salt downward into the water where it will slowly dissolve.

Here is a link to a diagram showing a salt bridge in diagram #2.
http://www.wikihow.com/Maintain-Your-Water-Softening-System

Once the salt is in contact with the water, allow at least 2 hours for salt to dissolve before initiating a manual regeneration cycle. As your resin's capacity has been exhausted, it will need an initial 1X regeneration using 18 lbs salt per cuft resin to restore the total softening capacity.
 
Last edited:

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,088
Reaction score
455
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
A salt bridge can easily be determined but... nasty...

Disconnect the brine line after a complete regeneration. Suck some water out of the brine tank from the brine tube. If it is salty, you are good. If it is clear, you have a problem. How large is your brine tank? If it is adequate size then simply clear out all the salt, sanitize the brine tank and get rid of the grid. Brine grids are used by some of the Chinese companies as a way to hold the brine well in place. Some companies promote then as a way to prevent dirt build up bridging etc. In reality, salt grids are primarily used to allow the use of cheaper and smaller brine tanks. and... no need to try to convince me otherwise, I have been doing system sizing and designing for 30 years including huge commercial/industrial systems. We use grids regularly but we try to avoid them whenever possible. Sometimes there is no choice due to space limitations, doorways, etc.
 

Claybe

New Member
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Colorado
"Once the salt is in contact with the water, allow at least 2 hours for salt to dissolve before initiating a manual regeneration cycle. As your resin's capacity has been exhausted, it will need an initial 1X regeneration using 18 lbs salt per cuft resin to restore the total softening capacity."

How do you use 18lbs of salt per cuft to regen???
 

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,088
Reaction score
455
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
In all reality... that is an old idea from the 70's The actual regeneration is more cumulative than that old formula considers. it also came from a time where softeners were manually regenerated by taking the top of the tank off, pouring salt into the resin tank (the systems did not have a salt tank) and then turning valve sin the proper sequence to regenerate the resin. Since this was tedious, it was very common for resin to go for weeks if not months after depletion. I have seen this idea stated for years that two regenerations with no water used between... I have ignored this statement but it is time to debunk it. A single regen with a a little extra salt will do just fine. I could go into all the technical reasons for why and how... but I am on my way to my hockey game so that will have to wait for another time.

The 2 hours... again, a little overstated. Using a simple meter you can test the saltiness of the water. Since sodium chloride is highly soluble in water, the brine saturation is usually over 80% in the first 10-20 minutes. The final 10% takes a while.

Keep it simple. Put a couple extra gallons in the brine tank, wait a little while, then regenerate it. It will be just fine.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,796
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
How do you use 18lbs of salt per cuft to regen???
You would have a total of 2.5*18/3=15 gallons of water making the brine. Your softener already put 5 gallons of water in, so to do what you ask, you would add 10 more gallons of water to what is there already.

You could make it 10 more gallons of hot water, and you can work on the big catch-up regen as well as the salt bridge thing.

Or based on Ditttohead's recent post, you can make that 2 extra gallons. More won't hurt. We know you have plenty of salt.
 

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
The bridge sounds like the simplest solution, and one I will address regardless, but I've been having this problem since I first installed the thing. I thought I had a bridge then, so I poured 5 gals of hot water, got soft water on the next regen, and subsequently came right back to hard water. As you can tell by my post history, I ignore the hard water until my skin gets itchy and dry, and that's when I come looking for a solution again. Are bridges that common? I thought using quality salt like Morton System Saver II was supposed to prevent it.

The water looks gross in the tank, but I'm going to take a sip because I don't know what else to do (the brine tank is a cylinder 18" in diameter and about 3ft-4ft in height). I'm then going to pour hot water into and do a manual regen. I'll try to get the grid out if you're saying that it might help, but last time I poured in something like 4 bags of salt thinking that it would help, so I'm going to have to dig all that out to get to it. Let's see what happens.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,796
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
I measure a single Morton System Saver II pellet (only one try, and not an average) at 0.2 ounces or 5 gram. A 4 ounce (1/2 cup) glass of water should dissolve about 6 or 7 pellets overnight. You could try that, and compare with the sample you dip out of the brine well. With no salt bridge, what you do draw out of the brine well should be saturated with salt.

Incidentally, I predict 4 fluid ounces of water would become 4.6 fluid ounces of brine when saturated.

You could compare samples with any of these:
  1. taste
  2. ohmmeter with the probes inserted the same into each sample.
  3. hydrometer if you happen to have one.
  4. ability to dissolve even more salt
 

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
I tasted the water in the brine tank, prior to pouring 5 gallons of hot water in, and it wasn't salty at all.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
I tasted the water in the brine tank, prior to pouring 5 gallons of hot water in, and it wasn't salty at all.
As previously stated, a salt bridge would prevent the salt from coming into contact with the water so the water would then not be salty.
 

antbruins

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
After a year of cursing this stupid water softener, I've finally figured it out.

It was the brine grid. The "cups" had detachable extensions on them and the total height of the grid was 8" off the bottom. Since I only had five gallons of water in a 18x40 tank, the WATER WASN'T TOUCHING THE SALT. I can't believe that took over a year to figure out!

I just took out the entire brine grid out. Hope I don't need it, but if I do, someone please holler out. I'll just put it back in without the extensions.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,796
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
It was the brine grid. The "cups" had detachable extensions on them and the total height of the grid was 8" off the bottom. Since I only had five gallons of water in a 18x40 tank, the WATER WASN'T TOUCHING THE SALT. I can't believe that took over a year to figure out!
By itself, that should not have caused a long-term problem. Because eventually the water level would have risen higher than the grid. But combine that with a float that is set to stop the water from rising high enough, and you get no, or little, water being added.

You don't need the salt grid.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks