New to Well Water

Users who are viewing this thread

Neil64

Member
Messages
30
Reaction score
1
Points
8
Location
Maryland
Hello All,

We are new to well water. Been using city water our entire lives. We purchased a 14 year old home near Annapolis, Maryland roughly 6 months ago that has been vacant while we have had renovations ongoing. Additionally, the previous owners were probably not spending much time in the house prior to selling it. So not constant or much water use for at least 8 months. The house is 4 bedrooms, 4.5 baths but we will be adding an additional ADA bathroom. 4 people will be living in it, one with autoimmune disease. 1 or 2 dogs in the near future.

In June of this year, we had the required coliform and e.coli bacterial tests done and passed as absent. We also had nitrate and nitrite tested and they were not detected.

All water related equipment appears to be 14 years old, working and assumed and not serviced within the last year. We have been adding salt to the water softener even though no one is living there and have sulfur smell in both hot and cold water.

Water equipment:

1” inlet cpvc
Pressure Tank: Amtrol X302 86 gallon
Filter: 2”x10”
Neutralizer: Autotroll timer
Softner: Autotroll timer
UV Light – ATS DWS-8VE


We’ve had the water tested by 2 water companies who recommend replacing our entire system because of age:


Raw Treated

Hardness 7 to 8 0

Iron 2 to 6 0.3 to 1.0

PH 6 to 7.3 6.5 to 7

TDS 113 to 140

From my readings on this site, it appears that a comprehensive water test such as a kit90 should be done prior to any equipment changes. Should anything be done, including shocking the well, prior to the water test? Do you folks generally recommend replacing equipment that seems to be working and not leaking just because of its age?

I have been researching sulfur control. All of the local water treatment companies I have contacted recommend chlorine injection or aeration. None has any significant experience with hydrogen peroxide injection. I realize that we have been consuming chlorinated water all of our lives but I am concerned about my kid with autoimmune disease. From my readings, hydrogen peroxide seems to the safest and most effective, aeration second but is often not 100% successful, and third chlorine. What do you folks recommend and what issues should I be concerned with?


Thanks in advance for any help.



Neil
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
I am not a pro. My comments are based on reading mostly. An injector system should have a good contact tank to let the peroxide react. That allows lower levels of H2O2 to be effective. The contact tank also collects solids which you can drain out with a drain/blowdown port. There are those with experience treating water with H2O2 with and without contact tank. I think a big contact tank will make it all work more effectively
http://www.wellmate.com/Files/Product/WellmateDiagramLarge/en/ut.jpg has a diagram, but there are other brands.


For right now, weather permitting, I might do a good well and system sanitizing. On the other hand, doing that after doing work is maybe mroe desireable. Testing tested for coliform bacteria, but not for some others including sulfate reducing bacteria and iron related bacteria. The first line of https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ has a link to a nice sanitizing article, but then I go into my possibly-overkill extension.
 

blaze4545

Member
Messages
30
Reaction score
5
Points
8
Location
Ontario, Canada
The water companies only tested RAW water? They should have tested after the equipment as well and this would have showed whether your softener and neutralizer were working or not. With that being said, if the units are as old as the house, they will more than likely need to be rebed. Find your exact model or a manual if the previous owners left one and step the units through a cycle. If the unit is doing what it's supposed (I.E backwashing on first cycle, sucking brine on second etc) then the control valve is good and you may just need to replace the resin. That would just involve taking off the head and replacing the water softener resin and neutralizer (calcite/corosex). Probably cost you under $200 if you do it yourself. This is the cheapest way, but in the end you are still relying on a 14 year old unit which will obviously have a greater chance of failing over a new unit.

Do you have sulfur bacteria or iron bacteria? If not, I would just stick with an air injection system. We have had great success in removing iron with an air injector unit with Birm media. Easiest and cheapest fix.

If you have iron bacteria , then you have to use some kind of oxidizing agent stronger than just air. Peroxide is amazing, but expensive. You could always do a chlorine injection and a backwashing carbon filter after the holding tank. This way you oxidize/sterilize the iron and remove the chlorine before it goes to the rest of the house.

Also, look into Ozone systems. Works like a birm air injector system but instead injects ozone into the water. SUPPOSEDLY it's more efficient than even chlorine and cheaper in the long run, however there are still consumables like the electronics to inject ozone.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
First off, a comprehensive lab analysis is needed. Any accurate recommendations will be dependent on an accurate report and as you are operating a private well, you are fully responsible for your water's safety and treatment.

If you wish to neutralize any type of bacteria, then disinfectant injection should be considered which will also reduce ferrous iron and the sulfur odor, particularly if a contact tank is incorporated. Finally, a back washing carbon filter prior to the softener will then remove/reduce any residual disinfectant and the byproducts of disinfection (THMs) which have recently been recognized as a health hazard.

A Katalox Light back washing filter is also effective for iron, manganese and sulfur reduction, but will not neutralize bacteria without a disinfectant also incorporated.
 

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,088
Reaction score
455
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
Air injection and birm can be effective but this is very regional. I have seen many companies use air injection and clinoptilolite successfully and others that require h2o2 injection, contact tank and a Katalox Light media to be successful. Water treatment is much more difficult than a single solution especially when it comes to iron treatment. Water temperature, pH, competing ions, and hundreds of other variables will affect the iron reduction medias ability to perform to expectations.

Birm was popular many years ago but had fallen out of favor with more modern medias. Katalox Light has really become the media of choice due to its higher manganese dioxide ore content, and its ability to filter sediment and oxidized iron down to the 3-5 micron range. It is considerably more expensive than birm but it works in applications where Pyrolox was the only choice in the past. Pyrolox is an amazing media but extremely difficult to work with due to its high backwash requirements. KL falls nicely between the weak media birm, and the overkill media Pyrolox.

Your low level of pH is likely attributed to your low level of TDS and the low hardness. Same for your iron level.

My recommendation considering the autoimmune disease issue would be to go with a simple h202 injection system with a properly designed contact tank. Even thought h2o2 is not widely considered a proper treatment method for bacterial control, it is simply part of a redundant system so it will be fine.

A calcite backwashing system or a soda ash injection system to raise the pH to approximately 7-7.5
The soda ash may negate the need for a softener if you don't want one. The calcite system would probably make a softener highly desirable. 7-8 grains is hard but not too bad.

A Katalox Light backwashing system to reduce any residual iron or other precipitates that did not fall out of solution in the contact tank.

Lastly a properly sized UV system. Most regular residential application use a 12-18 GPM system to ensure overdosing and better protection.

Hope this helps.
 

Neil64

Member
Messages
30
Reaction score
1
Points
8
Location
Maryland
Wow, I've already learned that I know nothing about this stuff an am lucky to find this site.

I did post the treated results next to the raw results. My tabs didn't work or line up. Sorry.

Radium is a concern in my county but not necessarily in my city, should I have that and arsenic tested too? Any reason to buy more than the Kit90 tests?

Thanks and keep the help coming.
 

Neil64

Member
Messages
30
Reaction score
1
Points
8
Location
Maryland
I just got the results back from a Kit360 test of my raw (before any treatment) well water samples taken from the pressure tank drain valve . I am only posting data that I think is relevant but can post additional if need be. All of the nasty stuff tested in the Kit360 came back, thankfully, none found. I don't believe iron or sulfur bacteria was tested.


Bacteria, E. coli Negative
Bacteria, total coliform Negative
Calcium, total 35.9 mg/L
Copper, total 0.04 mg/L
Iron, total 1.73 mg/L
Lead, total 0.008 mg/L
Magnesium, total 4.8 mg/L
Manganese, total 0.038 mg/L
Potassium, total 2.6 mg/L
Sodium, total 1.9 mg/L
Strontium, total 0.2 mg/L
Sulfur, total, by ICP 6.5 mg/L
Zinc, total 0.17 mg/L
Alkalinity (as CaCO3) 101 mg/L
Bicarbonate (as CaCO3) 101 mg/L
Carbonate (as CaCO3) 0.12 mg/L
Chloride 2.3 mg/L
Color 25 color units
Corrosivity, Langelier Index -0.7 S.U.
Corrosivity, Ryznar Index 8.6 S.U.
Fluoride <0.1 mg/L
Hardness 109 mg/L (as CaCO3)
Hardness (gpg) 6.4 grains/gallon
PH 7.1 S.U.
Salinity 0.118 ppt
Silica 61.7 mg/L
Sulfate 20 mg/L
Turbidity 12.7 NTU
Tot. diss. solids, estimated 160 mg/L
TOC, low level 0.6 mg/L

Where do I go from here? If I decide to replace the conditioner and neutralizer due to age and timed vs. metered, can I still use the existing UV light and pressure tank?

Thanks...

Neil

Neil
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Iron, total 1.73 mg/L: This is the biggest concern other than the H2S smell, which the test does not cover. Iron can be treated with an iron filter, or it can be treated with a softener with extra work and chemical treatment. A KL filter takes care of iron, H2S, and Manganese. A softener does not take care of H2S.

Manganese, total 0.038 mg/L: Secondary MCL is 0.05. Iron treatment or softener will take care of this too.

Hardness (gpg) 6.4 grains/gallon : softener is optional if you have separate iron filter, but nice. It will also pick up iron and manganese that made it by the iron filter.

PH 7.1 S.U. : Good pH. Does *not* need neutralizer. Maybe follow up with narrow range pH test paper occationally in case your pH changes significantly for some reason. 6.5 to 8.5 is normally considered the good range.

Silica 61.7 mg/L: Seems higher than usual. there is no established MCL for silica, but the water spots will not wash off. If you are particularly sensitive to water spots, consider rinsing windows, chrome, glassware with distilled or RO water as final cleaning step, or choose finishes where it will not be noticed. Your silica is not so bad that most people would be concerned. You cannot filter it out with regular filters. An RO filter takes it out.

If your well is a deep well, I don't think you need the UV or chemical. IRB and SRB are not going to grow in humans. It won't hurt however. I think UV has to be after filtering out particles that a bacterium could hide behind. If the well is shallow, there is more concern that something from the ground could somehow wash in.

Corrosivity, Langelier Index -0.7 S.U.
Corrosivity, Ryznar Index 8.6 S.U.
Your water is slightly corrosive. If you add more piping, plastic (PEX or CPVC) would probably be better.

Sulfate 20 mg/L: seems fairly low. This is what SRB eats. If you have H2S smell in the hot water, maybe turn the WH higher, or consider a powered anode. The powered anode also gives better corrosion protection int the WH.



Regarding radon, what was your uranium number?
 
Last edited:

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,088
Reaction score
455
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
Agreed with above but be aware that the low TDS and 7.1 pH is going to be corrosive. Also if the pH drops even slightly with the LSI where it is corrosion will greatly increase. A pH raising system either by injection or a calcite system may be beneficial. A calcite system will raise your hardness and this will cause the softener to become more important.

A KL system is usually a simple and very effective way to start your water treatment followed by a softener. This will usually eliminate the iron and manganese problems, the H2S is usually removed by the unit but can reoccur in the house especially after the water heater.

Silica... coat your shower doors and other wetted surfaces monthly with Rain-X.

The UV is fine and is usually a good idea when you are on your own water source. It is a simple and effective way to keep the water safer.
 

Neil64

Member
Messages
30
Reaction score
1
Points
8
Location
Maryland
My well is documented as 270' deep with a 1hp pump. Will a booster pump make a night and day difference with water pressure?

Also, what is LSI and KL abbreviation for?

Thanks...

Neil
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
My well is documented as 270' deep with a 1hp pump. Will a booster pump make a night and day difference with water pressure?
That is probably not the best way to increase pressure. If you want more pressure, adjust the pressure switch to a higher pressure and adjust the air precharge in the pressure tank. What is your current pressure at the pressure tank? Also, get a pressure gauge with a garden hose thread. You could hook that to a laundry tap or the drain on the WH. Fill the tub or do other water consumption where you think there is low pressure. See what both gauges read while the water is flowing. The difference will reflect the drop across your current system.

How big is the pressure tank, and what is the approximate minimum pump run time that you see?

Do you know how many "GPM" your 1 HP pump is, and do you know how far down the water is? Given that, we can see what that existing pump can do for you.

Langelier Saturation Index
Katalox light.
 

Neil64

Member
Messages
30
Reaction score
1
Points
8
Location
Maryland
Here is what I found from 15 years ago when the well was drilled:

Well depth = 270'.
Initial 2 hour pump test using air at land level 15 gpm: before pumping 117', when pumping 218'

I assume 15 year old well Pump:
1 hp Pump 10 gpm is probably installed around 220'
2" screen .016 slot size


The pressure tank is 86 gallons and I think is set to 40-60psi

How do I calculate minimum run time?

Thanks...

Neil
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
This is a typical 10 GPM 1 HP pump. That is a bigger than average pump for a house.

Suppose your water is 120 ft down while pumping. Your pressure switch is set to 40/60.

At 50 PSI, you would be pumping about 11 GPM. An 86 gallon tank would have about a 21.5 gallon drawdown. 86/11 is about 1.95 minutes.

img_2.png
 

Neil64

Member
Messages
30
Reaction score
1
Points
8
Location
Maryland
A water treatment company suggested:

Fleck 5600SXT demand water softener

2.5 cubic Katalox filter for iron

I am having a hard time learning about all of the hardware, media, acronyms, etc.. So much so, I don't know if different water treatment companies are recommending the same solution. Reading posts in the forum is helpful but everyone's water issues are different. Is there a book or a Well Water for Dummies were I can learn to make an informed decision?

Thanks...

Neil
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
A water treatment company suggested:
Fleck 5600SXT demand water softener
2.5 cubic Katalox filter for iron

No good. The 5600SXT can only backwash about 7 GPM, and a 10 inch x 54 tank with 1.5 cuft of KL should have more than that. No way it can it can be good with a 13 inch tank.

It would be fine with a softener of that size, but KL needs a lot more backwash rate than softener resin does.
 

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,088
Reaction score
455
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
The forum is your best source for up to date information. Most of the online information is based on what that particular company sells and unfortunately many companies push garbage equipment so they can make a few pennies more margin. The book forms on water treatment are typically behind the technology.

Agreed as to the 13" tank with KL. Not a viable option as the valve simply can not backwash the KL adequately. We would typically use 11 gpm as a starting point for that media and change it up or down slightly bsed on water temperature and other conditions.
 

Neil64

Member
Messages
30
Reaction score
1
Points
8
Location
Maryland
Can you guys recommend the hardware I should consider buying? I prefer to buy a name brand not proprietary.

Thanks...
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks