Pump keeps loosing prime, lots of air

[Matt A]

Yes......My goof...I actually pressure tested it at 55 psi bit did not vac test. I have 1-1/4 Y strainer ordered and will post results asap next week. I also have to confess I have.. 3 pvc O ring type couplings on the suction side as well....Don't ask(....but will reduce that to only one on this re-plumb.

 

[Reach4]

Yes......My goof...I actually pressure tested it at 55 psi bit did not vac test. I have 1-1/4 Y strainer ordered and will post results asap next week. I also have to confess I have.. 3 pvc O ring type couplings on the suction side as well....Don't ask(....but will reduce that to only one on this re-plumb.

Did you use silicone grease? I like to lightly coat O-rings with a little Molykote-111. It is a little stiffer than most, and is OK around food.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Matt A]

Well I got my Y strainer and hooked it up today and so far so good!!! I went cheap and ordered a polypropylene version and didn't realize that it had an O-ring but it seems to be of excellent quality. I lubed the O-ring well with silicone grease and it is like night and day from the setup I had before which had 3 oring couplings Plus the low quality Everbilt O ring strainer. I will report back in a day or two to be absolutely sure that it is still working, but it is working quite well right now. Thanks in advance for all of the help...you guys saved me from drilling a new well!

 

[Matt A]

Well unfortunately the pump is losing prime and pulling air. I'm going to try Mi Wells idea and drop poly pipe with a foot valve down the well and see what happens. But I was wondering first of all what is the correct way to plumb this out of the Wellhead so that it is sealed. And the other question I'm assuming that there is some sort of check valve at the bottom of the well, will dropping the poly pipe with the foot valve be able to suck it through that through the water column

 

[Reach4]

As far as the poly pipe, you could run a continuous piece of pipe for the test. That would minimize joints. Wherever you make a joint, that would be with barbed fittings. When installed permanently, poly pipe is connected to barbs with two (or 3) worm gear hose clamps with the gears staggered. Heat is normally needed to fit poly pipe over the barb. I have not done it. I am just saying what has been posted here by those who have done it.

poly pipe used for wells ASTM D2239 where IPS ID is held and OD varies with PSI ratings. That way it fits the barbs. http://www.charterplastics.com/pipe/ I don't know how thick of pipe is needed for your vacuum.

 

[Matt A]

I was thinking of buying a hundred foot roll of 1 inch PEX pipe....like you said there will be zero joints, and just triple worm clamp a male adapter to the foot valve....like you said...is pex rated for suction?

 

[Reach4]

I was thinking of buying a hundred foot roll of 1 inch PEX pipe....like you said there will be zero joints, and just triple worm clamp a male adapter to the foot valve....like you said...is pex rated for suction?

PEX costs more than poly. It uses different fittings. But other than that, it works. I don't know if they are rated for suction. But for this test, you don't really need a rating... you just want it not to collapse during your test. One of the people with experience may be by this evening.

 

[MI Well Drilling]

Your not going to want to hook it at the well permanent. 1 inch poly 160 psi is used a lot in my area for suction even 100 psi is fine. For now don't bother with a foot valve on the end hose clamps fight tight inside of 2 inch pipe. Just cut it at a slight angle to avoid plugging it off on the way down and put a 1 line check at the pump. Your doing this test to see if the existing horizontal line has a pin hole and if the pump test works make the repairs below ground. I'm still thinking the filter system is causing the air. You didn't have a air problem before that was added. Try plumbing without the filter. If you're worried about the jet getting plugged with debris simply incorporate a stainless window type screen in front of the nozzle of the venturi jet. Please try hooking it up the way it was originally.

 

[Matt A]

First of all thanks to everyone for all the help. MI, If there is a Bremer valve at the bottom of this well which I think there is... when I run my test pipe down will it pull the water through the valve and into the column or is it going to restrict it? Also what is the "correct" way to seal the well head if in fact I do drop let's say 1 inch pvc with a foot valve?

 

[Matt A]

And you are exactly right hose clamps on 1 inch does not fit down a 2 inch case!!! And I'm not going to buy a hundred dollar pair of PEX crimpers. I've also decided to move the actual pump next to the Wellhead eliminating the 25-foot horizontal run and eliminating the Y strainer and eliminating the one o ring style coupling.

 

[Matt A]

Well today was a complete failure. I dropped 1 inch PVC down the well with a foot valve and replumbed it to the pump and it is still pulling air. To make matters worse the water is JET BLACK because of all the scraping on the rusty pipe loosening up all the rust and scale... I let it run for over an hour and it is still jet black.....and pulling air....I'm so tired of dealing with it I'm ready to call in the pros and break out my checkbook. What I don't know is 1...is the well just dried up...2.... is the WellPoint just clogged.....3....or is there a Bremer valve down there that is restricting things.... who knows....but I have tried everything....any last ditch comments appreciated.

 

[Valveman]

That black stuff will clog a well point.

 

[Reach4]

Well today was a complete failure. I dropped 1 inch PVC down the well with a foot valve and replumbed it to the pump and it is still pulling air.

If you are actually sucking air, as opposed to just not pulling water, there is a leak above the water line. We know there is not a hole in the poly. So that would seem to imply your connection at the pump is leaking. Try sopping your joint(s) on the vacuum pipe with water, and see if the water pressure improves. If that happens, you have found a leak.

 

[Matt A]

Okay guys just an update. Just on principle I repiped with a brand new brass check valve from the Wellhead all the way to the pump...... still pulling air. I purchased a stethoscope and I can actually hear cavitation at the Wellhead which makes me think the problem is down below which we have thought all along. So the question is...is there an air leak in the casing or is the well just clogged and pulling air out of the water. I did like I said earlier and ran a 1 inch pipe with a brass foot valve and still pulled air but I believe there is a Bremer valve down at the bottom. So I ordered a USB pipe camera pretty cheap just see what's down there. Based on what I see I guess the next thing I'm going to try is ann acid treatment with Nu Well and go from there. Will keep you posted won't get the camera till Monday thanks for all the help.

 

[Reach4]

What is the vertical distance between the water level and the top of the pump? For a single pipe shallow well pump, that should be less than 25 ft.

 

[Matt A]

The well is 37 and the water is 8 feet from the top.

 

[MI Well Drilling]

Moving water with make that swishing noise your hearing. Try hooking a pitcher pump directly to the new line you ran to the pump. Have you been getting plenty of water? How did the well pump before you started having trouble.

 

[Matt A]

Well guys I've been away for awhile frustrated with this well but I'm happy to report I finally figured it out. After trying everyone's advice which by the way was sound and solid I repiped the suction line from the well to the pump I even put a new check and and added a Y strainer and got rid of all the ring couplings. Nothing helped at all. I was never sure if there was a foot valve at the bottom of the well, it is extremely old and only 3 inch but I noticed I could fill the well and it would actually fill to the top and then leak down very, very slowly to the water table so I just assumed there was a leaky bremer valve at the bottom. Well let me tell you I purchased a 50 Foot Led submersible camera for $20 off Amazon and I sent a camera down the well and there was no valve... unbelievable. I got to thinking about what Valveman said, if a well won't take water it won't make water, which makes perfect sense. So I decided to give it a gallon of muriatic acid just to see what would happen and the darn thing is working better than ever like new it's unbelievable. What I did to get the acid down to the bottom where it needs to be, I took 1 inch PEX pipe and sent it down the well all the way to the bottom 38 feet and then poured the acid into the PEX pipe which sent it straight down to the bottom of the well. I still had a nice toxic acid Fountain coming up for a few minutes but it wasn't bad. Thanks for all for the help and once again the kISS principle prevailed.

 

[Texas Wellman]

Good going. Bet it feels good figuring it out on your own.

They make acid that comes in solid form just for wells. You drop it in and it sinks to the bottom. It's called nu well.