Pressure assisted toilet sprays seat

[vkulesho]

I just installed new Kohler with pressure assist (K3493-47, Flushmate 503)). It puts a powerful swirl that hits the back wall and sprays everything within a foot from the bowl. I don't see anything that I can adjust. Does it mean that I have too much pressure in my house system? If yes, am I out of luck or is there something I can put onto the water intake to reduce the pressure?
Or is it a defective Flushmate, and I should call Kohler for replacement tank?

 

[Reach4]

Does it mean that I have too much pressure in my house system?

You should be able to buy a pressure gauge for under $20. It can thread onto a hose bib, a washing machine hookup, or a water heater drain.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[vkulesho]

You should be able to buy a pressure gauge for under $20. It can thread onto a hose bib, a washing machine hookup, or a water heater drain.

Are you saying that my post means that water pressure in my house is too high? If that can be the only reason what does water gauge give me? If I determine that water pressure is too high I have to return the toilet anyway, right? Or is there some simple device that I can twist on top of my toilet water supply to fix the pressure?

 

[Reach4]

Are you saying that my post means that water pressure in my house is too high? If that can be the only reason what does water gauge give me? If I determine that water pressure is too high I have to return the toilet anyway, right? Or is there some simple device that I can twist on top of my toilet water supply to fix the pressure?

I am not saying your pressure is too high. You said you did not know, but suspected it might be. I was suggesting that a pressure gauge is cheap enough and locally available. I don't know that Kohler device. I did not mean to imply that I was.

There is a standard device (actually two parts to that) to reduce the pressure for the whole house. If your house pressure is over 80 PSI, you should get that.

If your house pressure is not too high, I would contact Kohler to see what solution they might provide. If you put a pressure reducing valve for just the toilet, that would not be what I would call simple.

 

[WJcandee]

I don't see how the house water pressure would affect how the Flushmate works when it's flushing. It dispenses and then refills. Your problem seems to occur when it flushes, not when it refills, which is when it would be opening the valve to your house water system.

Candidly, it sounds more like defective porcelain molding than a defective tank. Could also be an improper installation (i.e. not level, etc.) But this is starting to exceed my familiarity with this particular toilet.

Plainly, it shouldn't do what you're saying it does. The bowl design for a pressure-assist toilet is different than the bowl design for a regular gravity toilet. It is designed to prevent exactly what you are describing. If you put a pressure tank on a gravity bowl, stuff will spray everywhere. Are ya sure that your supplier gave you the right bowl? Probably isn't that simple, but it might be. (The description of a swirl makes me a little suspicious...the American Standard pressure toilets that I am familiar with don't do what I would call a "swirl".)

Terry has installed a lot of pressure-assist toilets and may have something important to contribute here...

I would call Kohler and describe your symptoms to the friendly customer service people, and let us know how it all goes.

 

[vkulesho]

Thanks. Calling Kohler today.

 

[Reach4]

I don't see how the house water pressure would affect how the Flushmate works when it's flushing. It dispenses and then refills.

The is flush powered by compressed air -- air charged up by the water pressure, right?

Is the air charge pressure limited by limiting the fill amount, and thus making 90 PSI pressure not fill more than 40 PSI? I guess it makes sense that it would be.

 

[Terry]

I would put the seat down before flushing.
The Flushmate has it's own pressure regulator. There's nothing you can do. It's already using a lower pressure than the home.
It does flush well though.

http://www.flushmate.com/support/misc-toilet-performance-issues.php

Of the pressure assist bowls out there, I like the Kohler the most.

This video is a Kohler bowl with 1.1 gallon flush

 

[vkulesho]

I would put the seat down before flushing.
The Flushmate has it's own pressure regulator. There's nothing you can do. It's already using a lower pressure than the home.
It does flush well though.

http://www.flushmate.com/support/misc-toilet-performance-issues.php

Of the pressure assist bowls out there, I like the Kohler the most.

This video is a Kohler bowl with 1.1 gallon flush

 

[vkulesho]

That's what my father-in-law told me. He said back 50 years ago when he served on a Soviet submarine they had a toilet that had to have the lid closed before flushing. That toilet had more kick, though. He once saw a new recruit whom nobody had bothered to warn not having done that after pooping. Poor chap was splattered from head to toe.
Luckily for me, this is a new toilet. I can take it back to the store. According to the link you included, it must be some bowl manufacturing defect. Still sucks, though.

 

[Jadnashua]

It's not all that uncommon on a pressure assisted toilet. IMHO, they're more trouble than they're worth. Give me a well-designed gravity flush toilet any day. Now, I will say that it can happen with one of those, too. They are not all created equal.

 

[vkulesho]

It's not all that uncommon on a pressure assisted toilet. IMHO, they're more trouble than they're worth. Give me a well-designed gravity flush toilet any day. Now, I will say that it can happen with one of those, too. They are not all created equal.

Tried to turn down the water supply and see if it helps. Refill takes twice as long, but splashing is the same.
Spoke to Sloan and Kohler. They told me to get a new bowl (because the only reason can be poorly cut holes) and give it another chance. Kohler guy told me that whatever I got in the giant store is the same exact thing I would get in a private showroom. So, back to the store. Will post results.

 

[Terry]

The old Gerber bowls used to spray the legs when you were near them. Women noticed, men didn't. I guess men wearing pants is not conducive to being knowledgeable when it came to overspray.

 

[Jadnashua]

Partially closing a valve does not change the pressure available, it only affects the volume. Because it will continue to run until the tank is full, even though it takes longer, the ultimate pressure reservoir in the tank will be the same, so it would indicate some defect if it didn't flush the same.

 

[vkulesho]

Bought the gauge (ten bucks). My pressure is over 100 psi! Now I have a totally different problem that requires a professional. In the end, Kohler may be just fine. That explains some other issues my house had. Thanks, guys, for all your advice!

 

[Reach4]

You will probably need a PRV (pressure reducing valve) and a thermal expansion tank. It may be that a bypass PRV would be OK to use without a thermal expansion tank. Opinions and conditions vary. Having the thermal expansion tank is the norm.

Search for discussions.

Also, you might discuss this with neighbors, since they share the condition.

 

[vkulesho]

Isn't it supposed to be water company responsibility?

 

[Reach4]

Isn't it supposed to be water company responsibility?

I thought so until I found out otherwise on this forum

 

[Terry]

Before the PRV

A new PRV

And the solder joint that was taken out.

 

[Jadnashua]

That last picture is an example of how the original installer didn't have great attention to detail: the joint was either not cleaned well, or not fluxed properly, or overheated during the process, or all of the above. A proper joint would show an even layer of solder underneath the entire fitting. But, it apparently didn't leak, which shows how much room for error there is!

FWIW, the utility company is tasked with providing some minimum water pressure, having excess is not necessarily their problem. To make their system have decent water pressure everywhere, depending on how close you are to the pump or water tower, it might need to be higher there than ideal to be able to supply people downstream with adequate pressure. It's not unusual to need a PRV and an expansion tank.

WRT your pressure assisted toilet, that high pressure may not be the issue...as Terry said, many of those designs have an internal pressure reduction valve, and regardless of the incoming water pressure, it would never be too high unless the device was damaged or failed.