Washing machine drain backing up

[AshortVideo]

Hello!
First of all, thank you for your help. I want to try to solve this problem myself but I need some ideas on how to proceed.

We bought our house in 2014, it was built in 1954 (fort lauderdale, FL) but has been updated to PVC plumbing at some point. I have no basement. There use to be a septic tank in the back yard (Or so I am told), but at some point (way before us) the house was hooked up to city sewage.

The house came with a newer LG frontloading washing machine. For more than a year we had no problem with the drain backing up. It worked fine. I've spoken with the old owner, and he never had a problem. He was the one that purchased the frontloading washer.

One day, it started backing up from the washing machine outlet box. It is 1.5" PVC pipe. I used a drill mounted 3/16th snake to try to snake the drain, but it felt like it got stuck eventually. It felt like it was stuck at a corner, not a blockage.

I tried drain-o type products. I tried boiling water.

I tried full force garden hose with a pressure nozzle.... it would take water for about 10 seconds before backing up. Once I shut off the water, it will drain after 7 seconds or so, with a gargle sound.

I rented a 1/2" snake from home depot and snaked the vent pipe from the roof. No issues. I snaked the other vent pipe while I was at it. No issues. The snake was too big to snake from the outlet box.

I located my clean out drain near my house. It's on the opposite side of the house from the washer. There is another clean out by the street on the same side as the clean out by the house. I opened the one near the house and it seems to flow fine.

No other drains in the house back up or causes problems. Right near the washer we have a full bathroom, and the air conditioning closet which has a drain. No issues at all with any of these drains.

I opened up the wall today. I wanted to expose the PVC and see if there was something obvious, and to check those pipes for blockage. Since all the other drains are fine, I figured the problem had to be in those pipes right near the washer. I'll attach some pictures, but it doesn't look bad.

I'm planning to replace the pipe in the house to 2" while I have the wall open, so I cut open the PVC and didn't find any clog.

The pipe comes down from the outlet box and comes to a metal pipe that goes through the wall to the outside. The only part that is metal is the part that goes through the wall. On the outside, the metal pipe transitions into 1.5" PVC again. The PVC goes straight down to ground level, and then runs right under ground level towards the back yard where the septic tank use to be. I can only follow it until it comes to a concrete walk way.

I suspect the 1.5" pipe runs all the way to the septic tank, but when they switched to city sewage, the pipe was re-routed to the main line to the street, somewhere in the back yard near the septic tank. But shouldn't this line from the washing machine be connected to a roof vent at some point???

Once I cut the pipe, I tried snaking the pipe, from the inside, towards the street, with my 3/16" but again it seemed to get stuck fairly soon. Perhaps my snake is bent too much? I tried to separate the threaded metal pipe from the pvc pipe on the outside, so I could try to snake it from there, but it won't budge. I soaked it with PB Blaster and I'm letting that penetrate.

I don't really know how to proceed. It seems like this washer is on it's own drain pipe as it heads towards the backyard. It doesn't hit a main line near the house. This makes sense because all the other drains are fine. I certainly don't want to start digging up the back yard trying to follow and replace this 1.5" pipe.

What would you do next?
Thank you!!!
Andy

 

[Reach4]

I would try a medium Brasscraft drain bladder, but if the clog is beyond where another drain joins, water will back up into the other drain. Have a helper to monitor other drains so that you can shut down the hose pressure if there is water coming out elsewhere.

 

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[Jadnashua]

While this is not legal most places anymore from what I hear, they may have routed your washing machine to a dry well, and over the years, lint buildup has essentially plugged up any pores in the well, and it cannot drain, or if it does, it does it very slowly. IOW, it may not make it to the sewer connection, or it might still be going into the old septic tank.

Modern codes require a WM drain to be 2"...don't think you'll do yourself any favors by changing that section to 2" if it becomes 1.5" later. Second thought...if that 1.5" pipe is galvanized, that rusts out and in the process, will snag any lint, while continually getting smaller in diameter with the combination of lint and rust.

You'd probably do yourself a big favor if you routed it to a drain line in the house and abandon the existing line.

FWIW, vents rarely prevent things from draining...they're designed to prevent siphoning other p-traps dry by the flow...they generally will drain fine without one, but can cause issues with other fixtures in the process.

 

[AshortVideo]

While this is not legal most places anymore from what I hear, they may have routed your washing machine to a dry well, and over the years, lint buildup has essentially plugged up any pores in the well, and it cannot drain, or if it does, it does it very slowly. IOW, it may not make it to the sewer connection, or it might still be going into the old septic tank.

Modern codes require a WM drain to be 2"...don't think you'll do yourself any favors by changing that section to 2" if it becomes 1.5" later. Second thought...if that 1.5" pipe is galvanized, that rusts out and in the process, will snag any lint, while continually getting smaller in diameter with the combination of lint and rust.

You'd probably do yourself a big favor if you routed it to a drain line in the house and abandon the existing line.

FWIW, vents rarely prevent things from draining...they're designed to prevent siphoning other p-traps dry by the flow...they generally will drain fine without one, but can cause issues with other fixtures in the process.

That makes sense! I would have to look into how to get pipe through the wall to the bathroom sink drain which is on the same wall. I suppose it would have to be sloped. Then it's just a matter of making the connection with a Y fitting or something.

If I opened the clean out drain near the house, and run water (maybe with some food coloring) down the WM drain line, I should be able to see it in the main clean out right? If I don't see it, that's probably hard evidence that the washing machine isnt draining into the city sewage.... right??

 

[AshortVideo]

I would try a medium Brasscraft drain bladder, but if the clog is beyond where another drain joins, water will back up into the other drain. Have a helper to monitor other drains so that you can shut down the hose pressure if there is water coming out elsewhere.

That seems like an inexpensive thing to try. Too bad I was just at harbor freight today.... Guess I'm going back! The rule is to get what you came for, and then walk directly to the register with your eyes closed.

 

[Jadnashua]

Wherever you make a connection, it must already be at least 2" ID if you want your changes to pass code, and the line would need to be vented. That vent line doesn't need to go all the way through the roof as a dedicated line IF you can connect with an existing vent. Generally, code requires that to be made 42" above the floor, or at least 6" above the flood rim of any other devices it is servicing...IOW, you might be able to connect to the vent in the wall for the bathroom on the adjoining wall.

 

[AshortVideo]

Wherever you make a connection, it must already be at least 2" ID if you want your changes to pass code, and the line would need to be vented. That vent line doesn't need to go all the way through the roof as a dedicated line IF you can connect with an existing vent. Generally, code requires that to be made 42" above the floor, or at least 6" above the flood rim of any other devices it is servicing...IOW, you might be able to connect to the vent in the wall for the bathroom on the adjoining wall.

hmm. I guess I'll have to figure out what size my bathroom sink drain is. I'd hate to get into replacing that as well. I'm not about to let code enforcement people into my bathroom, but I'd hate for the drain to back up despite all my efforts.

There is a vent right above this area of my house. I figured the WM hit that vent... but after opening the wall, it probably only works for the bathroom (I hope!).

 

[Reach4]

That seems like an inexpensive thing to try. Too bad I was just at harbor freight today.... Guess I'm going back!

I see Ace has a different brand: http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=20714506 Lowes has "Cobra" brand. HD carries the real thing.

The Brasscraft pulses the stream of water after it puffs up. That vibration can help shake something loose. The pressure could build enough to cause water to come out of the roof vent or to cross over to another vent unseen... Harmless if the drain under that vent is working. But backing up into a shower drain unnoticed could be bad.

 

[Jadnashua]

Even if you don't care about codes...and, they're there to help ensure things work right, it's never a good idea to try to neck down a drain. Modern front loaders tend to pump faster than older, top-loaders, too.

 

[AshortVideo]

Even if you don't care about codes...and, they're there to help ensure things work right, it's never a good idea to try to neck down a drain. Modern front loaders tend to pump faster than older, top-loaders, too.

Right. I understand why the codes are there, and I will try to follow them. Just the idea of re-routing the whole drain shook me up a little. That means a lot more drywall and a lot more work. Not to mention all the googling I'll have to do.

 

[AshortVideo]

I see Ace has a different brand: http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=20714506 Lowes has "Cobra" brand. HD carries the real thing.

The Brasscraft pulses the stream of water after it puffs up. That vibration can help shake something loose. The pressure could build enough to cause water to come out of the roof vent or to cross over to another vent unseen... Harmless if the drain under that vent is working. But backing up into a shower drain unnoticed could be bad.

Well, based on what I've seen and the history I know about the house, and the kind advice of Jadnashua, I'm fairly certain this drain connected directly to the old septic tank. So I'm not worried about messing up the showers. Worth a try. I'm going to stick some water and food coloring down the drain and see if it passes by in my clean out. I doubt it will. Then I can blast it with the bladder, unless that's bad for the septic tank or drywell?

 

[WorthFlorida]

Well, based on what I've seen and the history I know about the house, and the kind advice of Jadnashua, I'm fairly certain this drain connected directly to the old septic tank.

If the pictures is your drain line it has the wrong elbows. The PVC on the ground is an elbow for water lines (or irrigation lines), not drains. The washing machine probably wasn't connected to the sewer line because of its location. But the soil around your house is sand (I do not think it is shell rock) and it is quite easy to dig a trench around the house to connect to the sewer line for a permanent fix. (That is if your a young guy.)

If the septic tank is original to the house do you know what it is made of? A sixty year old tank could collapse if its not made of plastic or fiberglass but your blockage could be that the drain field is completely clogged up. If you know where the tank is there is an access cover for servicing. A septic tank needs to be pumped out every few years to remove solids (with septic use) that settle to the bottom. Your bottom could now be at the top and eventually the drainfield gets full of solids. If this is the case the septic tank and field is completely useless and no way to save it. The cover would be about 16" in diameter.

 

[AshortVideo]

If the pictures is your drain line it has the wrong elbows. The PVC on the ground is an elbow for water lines (or irrigation lines), not drains. The washing machine probably wasn't connected to the sewer line because of its location. But the soil around your house is sand (I do not think it is shell rock) and it is quite easy to dig a trench around the house to connect to the sewer line for a permanent fix. (That is if your a young guy.)

If the septic tank is original to the house do you know what it is made of? A sixty year old tank could collapse if its not made of plastic or fiberglass but your blockage could be that the drain field is completely clogged up. If you know where the tank is there is an access cover for servicing. A septic tank needs to be pumped out every few years to remove solids (with septic use) that settle to the bottom. Your bottom could now be at the top and eventually the drainfield gets full of solids. If this is the case the septic tank and field is completely useless and no way to save it. The cover would be about 16" in diameter.

Yea, that pipe is the drain off the washer. Done totally wrong huh?

I am a young guy but it's been a rough year. 2 hernia surgeries and 4 broken ribs last month. Constant recovery mode. It is sand and trenching would be easy, but there are a lot of concrete pathways. There is probably a way to tunnel under the pathways, but that sounds difficult.

The only thing i know about the septic tank is that the old owner says its under a huge palm tree in the backyard. To be honest, he could be wrong and there might not be a septic tank at all... but I think there is. I have combed over almost every inch of the property and there is not an obvious access point for the septic tank. There is a chance this tree was planted over it??

It sounds like abandoning this pipe and connecting the washing machine to the plumbing in the bathroom is the easiest of all the bad options.

 

[WorthFlorida]

You digging is out of the question for now and it is very easy to trench under a walkway or sidewalk. I had a septic tank cleaned out at my church rectory and the guy went around the yard with a long thin rod (you can use rebar) poking it in the ground. He found it in no time since when he hit the plastic tank it made a distinctive sound. Then poked around until the noise changed when he found the cover. It was about 12 inches below grade. This tank is about 350 gallons.
Since the so called drain line is PVC you can easily cut it past the elbow, pull the pipe up and check it out. You can try putting the garden hose into it the clear any blockage but if that fails I think it is time to really abandon it. Maybe you can find a handyman to do the digging. If it wasn't for my two herniated disc and stenosis I'd drive down to FLL and give you a hand.

 

[Flapper]

That seems like an inexpensive thing to try. Too bad I was just at harbor freight today.... Guess I'm going back! The rule is to get what you came for, and then walk directly to the register with your eyes closed.

don't forget your 20% off and free item coupons.
My rule is to only buy one item per visit (if practical), that way I can get 20% off, and a free item, with each item, versus buying everything at once which results in only 20% one of them and one free item.

 

[Flapper]

but has been updated to PVC plumbing at some point.

PVC or CPVC?