Sears Kenmore 370 at wits end :(

[DaveKlein]

I've been researching and found a good thread here that linked to the Kenmore diagnostics page here.
http://www.kenmorewater.com/

I've cleaned the venturi and validated that it is filling and sucking in the brine. But in the diagnostics, it asks if it goes to the "F" position when regen started. Mine did not and went to BW, back wash position. At that point the diag said sorry, can't help you and stopped. I went back thru the diag and said yes to the F position just to go thru the rest of it to see if I found anything. I didn't, so I emailed softenerparts.com and they said I needed a new seal kit. Installed it yesterday and regen'd twice but still hard as a rock water. The rotor looked fine and I can't think of what else to try except go buy a new softener I feel so defeated by this thing that isn't that complicated!! So if anyone can help in anyway, I'd be most grateful!!!

Thanks so much!!
Dave in Austin

 

[ENIGMA-2]

Start with the obvious, is there a salt bridge? It may be working fine, except no salt is getting disolved.

What is your water hardness and iron?

What are your softener settings?

When in test position, are you recording water flow on meter?

Is switch showing that it is in neutral when in service position? ("---" on display.)

Do you use iron out in your softener? If your water contains iron, the resin can become coated with iron and get locked. Iron out will disolve the iron and free up the resin.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Mikey]

This is probably of no help, but a friend (a very experienced and capable mechanic/DIYer) with a 15-year-old Kenmore didn't even try to fix it. Just went out and bought a new one (which happened to be on sale).

 

[DaveKlein]

No salt bridge. I'm wary of those since I did have the lining in the recharge canister come open and I had this yellow sand clog all of my faucets in the kitchen and bath. Turned out to be the epoxy beads in that tank. It was under warranty and the when they replaced it, he told me not to add so much salt, just a couple of bags at a time.

Hardness is over 1000 ppm according to a pool test kit I have. I don't know the iron but we live in a mostly limestone rock area and iron staining here.

Softener setting are at hardness of 19. I can't remember what that means right now

I haven't recorded water flow per se. Maybe you could expand on that? I can hear it doing back wash, fill and brine ans so on. It does have a flow meter on the front and showing 0.0 right now.

Lastly, I have no idea about switch in service position??? The rotor show it's at S when finished!? Maybe you can expand on that too?

 

[Bannerman]

As you mention iron staining, I expect your water source is a private well. Municipal systems are typically chlorinated so the chlorine will oxidize the iron, causing it to precipitate as a solid (rust) out of the water.

As you are responsible for the safety and treatment of your own well supply, suggest to obtain a comprehensive water test through a certified testing lab. The test should show all minerals and contaminates contained as well as the hardness level.

A pool test kit is not appropriate for your drinking and bathing supply. If the 1000+ ppm hardness is accurate, then your hardness levels alone are almost 60 grains per gallon plus iron. You indicate that your softener is only set to 19 and there seems to have been no maintenance performed to remove iron fouling. A salt setting has not been defined.

While these issues will not remidy your initial function issue, they may have contributed to the reason why the unit is not currently functioning.

 

[DaveKlein]

Well no, I'm not on a well. Those things can chew thru water softeners. I'm in Austin TX on city water. I've had this softener for about almost 10 years with no issues aside from the canister issue. I believe the initial setup of this softener had me do a test which designated my water at a 19. Not sure what 19 meant right now but I could go buy a better test kit but the point is that it just isn't working at all. Even though jumps thru all the supposed steps. Is the first step of water softener regen back wash??? That's where my Kenmore diagnostics failed?

 

[ENIGMA-2]

This is probably of no help, but a friend (a very experienced and capable mechanic/DIYer) with a 15-year-old Kenmore didn't even try to fix it. Just went out and bought a new one (which happened to be on sale).

Interesting sidenote, was at Sams Club yesterday, and they sell a 30,000 grain, rebranded Ecowater unit (Morton Salt) for $360. (Same as Kenmore).

 

[ENIGMA-2]

If you have iron staining, I believe it wouldn't hurt to buy a pkg of Iron Out and try running it through a regeneration. If the resin's iron clogged, this would help free it.

As you don't have a salt bridge, the valve is cycling properly, and the unit is drawing in brine ok, it's possible that the resin is exhausted. I would imagine that this would happen gradually over time, not all at once. (Some of the experts here could confirm or enhance this).

 

[DaveKlein]

I just had a Culligan Water guy service my Deionized Water system at work this morning and he confirmed that the resin is dead if it's older than 5 years and mine is. So off to buy a new one and thanks to all help and responses! I really appreciate it!

 

[ditttohead]

Are you really going to buy another Sears /Big Box system? Resin can last much longer than 5 years. It has more to do with chlorine and other contaminant exposure than just an arbitrary number of years. I would highly recommend a Fleck or Clack based system built by a real water treatment company rather than another system built by the lowest bidder.

 

[ENIGMA-2]

I just had a Culligan Water guy service my Deionized Water system at work this morning and he confirmed that the resin is dead if it's older than 5 years and mine is. So off to buy a new one and thanks to all help and responses! I really appreciate it!

Seems strange that resin would wear out in only 5 years. From what I've read, resin goes bad at a rate between 5% and 10% a year. (And then again, chlorine can destroy resin, seems a bit soon, but it does take a toll. If this is what happened, it will also occur on a new softener as well. You should consider putting a filter in before a new softener to protect it from chlorine.)

I would still consider using Iron Out to see if your resin is iron locked.

And if the resun is indeed bad, you can simply replace it for somewhere around $150. You simply vacuum out or pour out the old resin and pour in the right quantity of new.

(Assuming that the rest of the softener is ok, and if it's only five years old, I would guess it would be.)

 

[Bannerman]

The City of Austin, TX water report indicates that chloramines (mixture of chlorine and ammonia) is utilized for disinfection as opposed to chlorine only. Information found elsewhere indicated that chloramines do not have the same oxidative properties as chlorine so it appears any iron may remain in a ferrous state throughout the water distribution system.

I have yet to find information related to chloramines affect on softener resin to determine if the chloramines will degrade and damage the resin more rapidly than chlorine.

While a few forum members seem to have relatively good experience with department and big box store softeners, as Dittohead implied, there are systems built with higher quality components, that will function more reliably over a much longer service life.

 

[ditttohead]

Resins longevity involves too many factors to list here. In general, industry averages say 5% attrition per year. This is only a wild guesstimate. The quality of the resin, the amount of use, orp, temperature etc all greatly affect the longevity of resin.

A higher crosslink tends to last better in chlorinated water supplies. Both chlorine and chloramine damage resin over time.

Chlorine damage tends to be cumulative. a house with 5 people, close to the water distribution system (higher chlorine) may have a low grade resin bed that only lasts a year. The same family near the end of the run may last tem years due to the diminished chlorine levels that they receive.

Many companies also spec the lowest cost resin. Some of these resins are so poorly manufactured that we are surprised when people get more than a year or two out of them.

 

[Reach4]

Isn't it the case that while resin can have a too-short life, it is not uncommon to have the resin perform well for over 20 years?

http://www.watts.com/pages/faq.asp?catId=2242&faqId=5 says

"With the proper pretreatment and maintenance, the average water softener will not need its resins replaced in its lifetime (20 + years)."​

http://www.premierwatermn.com/hard-life-water-softener-resin/ says

Here’s how you can predict chlorine’s effect on standard 8% resin life:
10/ parts-per-million (ppm) of chlorine = the expected years of service
At 0.5ppm chlorine, this is 20 years. At 2ppm, it is only five years​

I am not saying I buy into that.

One thing I do wonder about that would have practical impact is how is the resin affected by shorter higher ppm chlorine dosing during system sanitizing? Say 20 ppm for 3 hours, for example.