Misaligned toilet flange fiasco

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Dgamby

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Hello All,

I had a delightful day trying to work on an old toilet in the house we just bought that was backing up every which way and creating a slight disaster.

I eventually removed the toilet and found the clog. In doing so It looks like when this toilet was installed they did a crappy (no pun intended) job. The drain pipe is not centered over the toilet flange and it doesn't look like they installed any type of offset flange.

I cleared it, re-insalled the toilet, and it is backing up again. Can someone take a look at these pics and tell me if this looks like it will need a more radical overhaul? I'm not an expert but I feel like it shouldn't look like this!
 

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Reach4

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Can someone take a look at these pics and tell me if this looks like it will need a more radical overhaul? I'm not an expert but I feel like it shouldn't look like this!
Yes. You certainly are in dire need a closet flange.
 

hj

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That IS an offset flange, and one of the worst ones to use. It creates a "shelf" under the toilet's outlet and can cause clogging. The wax seal was installed so it covers part of the outlet pipe.
 

Dgamby

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Ok so I'm not crazy, it isn't a great system. So a closet flange should solve my problems? I was thinking a better offset flange might be helpful instead of this one that seems a little homemade. Or perhaps it is just time to call in the pros?

DG
 

Reach4

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Go to the basement and see what it looks like under there. No? OK, then crawl into the crawl space. What? It's worse?

It looks like maybe a 2 inch pipe or smaller there. I wonder what the rest of the path looks like.
 

Reach4

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I would think you would want a plumber to do a video inspection to see what is going to be needed. Ask your neighbors for tips.

Also start thinking about what you would like your bathroom floor to look like if the excavation is wider than a new skirted toilet.

I am not a pro.
 

hj

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Unfortunately, I DO know what is there. It is a 3" riser into an oval offset flange. The wax ring is INSIDE the flange, not on top around the opening. There is NO "better" offset flange for cast iron pipe, because the only other one is almost impossible to make a lead/oakum joint, at least for an amateur, and the pipe would have to cut about 4" lower.
 

Reach4

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Just adding some marks to the drawing.

As I think I see it, the green marks what I interpret as a pipe, 2 inches or less. The blue is part of a closet flange that was intended for 4 inch or so lead pipe or part of a closet flange that was cut to rig this up.

The material I marked in yellow seems to some material such as mortar or other material that hardens up.

Maybe at some point a person did a "repair" by shoving that pipe into a leaky lead pipe and cementing around the new pipe. Or maybe it was rigged like that from day one, and the toilet was to be relegated to urine only.

The red would be the mostly un-squished wax ring that hj is referring to.
img_2.jpg
 

Dgamby

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As far as I can tell your color coded markings are correct regarding what everything is. HJ, yes the wax ring is inside the flange.

So given the situation, any recommendations on what I need to do to make the toilet workable again?
 

Reach4

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Suppose your flange was something like the one shown here: https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/closet-flange-cast-iron-condition.35302/

And let's say the lead pipe split or leaked for some reason. Some bozo might have put a handy 1 ft scrap of pipe in the hole, and lathered some material that hardened into place. There are some holes in lead that can be repaired from up top. They make an inside sleeve like lead device that fits inside. I forget the right name for that. So if you had that situation and could remove the mortar or plaster or whatever, maybe you could repair it with difficulty and patience. I don't know if that material would be 10 inches thick or 2 inches thick.

But calling a plumber is going to get you a working toilet much faster and surer. I still think that having the thing photographed inside will make sense before the electric hammering starts.
 

Gary Swart

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Not much point in trying to guess what was done or could have been done to make this mess. Yes, it would be interesting, but have no value. It is my opinion that your best course of action is a professional plumber who can get rid of the junk that you have and replace it properly. Anything less would be another patch job that would likely not work well. This is another time when the wise DIY knows when to call in the pro.
 

Dgamby

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Yeah that is what I was coming here to try and figure out. I think it is time to call in the big guns and bring in a plumber. Thanks for the advice and direction.
 
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That neck looks so narrow, I'm surprised it doesn't clog when someone goes to poo.

You're going to have to demolish some of that concrete so you can get a proper drain and flange installed to code.

A licensed professional is recommended.
 

Dgamby

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Yeah, it is funny that it worked for as long as it has. I also installed a thicker wax ring with the extra funnel attached and I think that compounded the problem by providing even less rom for the waste to slide over to the side.

It is cast iron to what seems to be a fairly narrow pvc (I think) pipe that goes down a few feet into the main waste line. I may try a normal thinner wax ring to see if I can get it workable for a few days until I can get someone out to see what needs to be done.

Many thanks for all the advice.
 

Reach4

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It is cast iron to what seems to be a fairly narrow pvc (I think) pipe that goes down a few feet into the main waste line.
What causes you to think you have PVC down there? It seems unlikely to me, but maybe you have some info?
I may try a normal thinner wax ring to see if I can get it workable for a few days until I can get someone out to see what needs to be done.
I would take a thicker ring and form it by hand (you can wear nitrile gloves) to a shape that will come up high enough to connect between the flange and the bottom of the toilet. There should be some squishing when you set the toilet down.
 

Dgamby

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Maybe not pvc. Sorry I don't know my pipes. It is white, is a little ragged where it was cut and definitely doesn't seem like metal. The diameter of that pipe does seem to be about 3 inches, so bigger than I thought. Also the offset from the left edge of the flange to the left edge of the pipe is a little about 3.5 inches or slightly less. I guess that would be the offset amount.

As a temporary fix (and I know certainly not the best) I took two wax rings and made a franken-ring that is slightly larger than a standard ring. I put this on top of the flange, instead of on the bottom of the toilet. The hope would be that this way the wax ring won't go down into the inside of the flange and block any of the limited path the waste has to travel. Again not a long term solution, but it doesn't seem to be leaking and the toilet is flushing toilet paper once again. Hopefully that buys me some time.
 

Reach4

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I can only presume you can see white with a flashlight. That makes the thing you have at the toilet flange more shocking. I had presumed that your flange dated back to when the slab was poured. I wonder about that now. Anyway, check your neighbors for plumbing references. If the houses near you were built together, the some neighbors and local plumbers will probably know what is down there.
 
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