Shower Drain leaking after exuberant cleaning!

[Steve42]

Our basement bathroom has been a struggle ever since we bought this house, but things were flowing smoothly (no pun intended) until my wife decided that my daughter was not adequately cleaning the shower. My DD has waist length hair and keeping drains clean is an issue. My wife popped the drain cover out to remove the hair, and by her words "the black ring came out too, so I put it back." Once she finished scrubbing the walls and floor, she turned on the shower to rinse it down.

The shower and toilet in this bathroom are elevated to accommodate the septic pump/tank system. WHen she was rinsing out the shower, I was in the adjacent basement workshop and saw water coming out onto the basement floor. After ascertaining that the leak was not in the tank or pipes, I figured out that she broke the seal for the drain itself, but because the drain is a snap-in unit, I've never dealt with one before and I don't know how to guarantee that I am installing or repairing it correctly.

The drain cover has "AS&B" stamped on it, but ASB Bathing Systems (owned by Delta) claims no knowledge, so I am not sure who manufactured it. The drain cover does not appear to be damaged (or to have had the rubber gasket ever attached physically to it), so I don't know if my wife just pushed the gasket down too far or what happened. My daughter is not enjoying coming up to borrow our shower, and I'd like to get it repaired. Any advice would be appreciated.

Steve

 

[Reach4]

I am not familiar with the system. A hose putting water down the middle of the drain should not cause any leak to the floor if the problem is the seal that is near the drain. That would be a diagnostic.

I can't tell for sure, but that second photo seems to have a seal that is popped up a bit. Could you gently push that down with your finger or a blunt tool? On the other hand, does that seal lift out easily? If so, I would consider putting that back with some kind of a compound. I don't know what compound I would use. Plumber's grease lubricates and lets the gasket adjust, pipe dope lubricates and then forms a removable seal, and the most heavy duty and permanent would be silicone sealant.

I am not a pro. Maybe somebody will recognize your actual system.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Smooky]

AS&B
Brand: AMERICAN SHOWER AND BATH
There are a lot of bad reviews on this brand.

If you can not put it back together you could take/tear out the existing drain assembly and replace it with a new type of drain. There are drains that can be inserted from the top and have wings that clamp onto the plastic so you get a tight water tight fit.

 

[Steve42]

I am not familiar with the system. A hose putting water down the middle of the drain should not cause any leak to the floor if the problem is the seal that is near the drain. That would be a diagnostic.

I can't tell for sure, but that second photo seems to have a seal that is popped up a bit. Could you gently push that down with your finger or a blunt tool? On the other hand, does that seal lift out easily? If so, I would consider putting that back with some kind of a compound. I don't know what compound I would use. Plumber's grease lubricates and lets the gasket adjust, pipe dope lubricates and then forms a removable seal, and the most heavy duty and permanent would be silicone sealant.

I am not a pro. Maybe somebody will recognize your actual system.

If I pour the water directly into the drain pipe, there is no leak. The leakage only occurs when water is allowed to drain normally (as when the shower is running) so the leak is occurring on the outside of the drain pipe.

I assumed my wife was referring to the fat black gasket around the drain pipe and not the thin one around the drain assembly. I will ask her again.

 

[Steve42]

AS&B
Brand: AMERICAN SHOWER AND BATH
There are a lot of bad reviews on this brand.

If you can not put it back together you could take/tear out the existing drain assembly and replace it with a new type of drain. There are drains that can be inserted from the top and have wings that clamp onto the plastic so you get a tight water tight fit.

The issue is not (at this point) an inability to put it back together so much as not knowing what "together" would look like. I didn't install it or pull it out, so I don't know if any of the parts below the drain cover were ever physically attached or if it just pressed in place. I know there was no silicone holding it down.

I've looked at a video for the WingTite Shower Drain. If some of the pros here will chime in that the method is tried and true, I'll look into that one. There is no easy way to get under the pan for any of the effort because of the way the bathroom was constructed.

 

[Reach4]

I wonder if the leakage occurs at A or B. I had been thinking A, but maybe B is more likely.

 

[Smooky]

I think the WingTite demonstration is not too bad. I don't know exactly what you will run into but I think their demo is fairly realistic. You may have to make more cuts than what they show. Your retaining ring may not drop down as easily as what theirs does, but it might. Go slow and be careful not to cut the shower. Slide something under the edge of the flange when you are cutting the drain flange to prevent damage. Use this demo as a guide to remove your existing drain:

BruCo pull tight shower drain assembly is another simular brand that compresses onto the 2" pipe instead of sliding up and down on the pipe.

 

[Steve42]

View attachment 32326 I wonder if the leakage occurs at A or B. I had been thinking A, but maybe B is more likely.

I have sent a message to my wife to see which part came up when she was removing the cover.

 

[Standardairconditioner]

tear out the existing drain assembly and replace it with a new type of drain.

I also agree that the current drain is of poor quality and design, and would have leaked eventually even if you did not tamper with it.

A good drains permits for easy cleaning anytime by the home owner.

It is strongly recommended you replace the drain. It will just cost you more in the long run with more leaks.

 

[Steve42]

I think the WingTite demonstration is not too bad. I don't know exactly what you will run into but I think their demo is fairly realistic.

BruCo pull tight shower drain assembly is another simular brand that compresses onto the 2" pipe instead of sliding up and down on the pipe.

I actually like the look of that one better than the WingTite. Something about a real person and product in the video rather than the special effects version.

 

[Steve42]

OK, my wife has verified that the larger part (labeled "A" in Reach4's version of the picture) is the part that came out. I find myself wondering if it was not originally fitted inside the bottom lip of the drain cover acting as a funnel into the drain pipe and when she pressed it further down, the water is flowing through the drain holes and then escaping outward.

I guess I'm going to have to order the BruCo, because even with shipping, it is less expensive than the WingTite which would have to be shipped to the store at Home Depot anyway. Looks like my daughter has another week of climbing the stairs to shower.

 

[Reach4]

I guess I'm going to have to order the BruCo, because even with shipping, it is less expensive than the WingTite which would have to be shipped to the store at Home Depot anyway. Looks like my daughter has another week of climbing the stairs to shower.

Take pictures of the install and post please.

 

[Terry]

If you had just reinstalled the rubber gasket, it most likely would have been fine.
Pulling up on the flange only makes things worse. The drain is attached with a nut from below the pan. You can't remove the drain from the top unless you intend to destroy it.
Destroy the shower drain, and maybe you can install one of the new replacements that fit from the top, but only if you leave the pan intact.
The best bet is still to reinstall the rubber gasket which was sealing the pipe to the drain. Liquid soap helps to make it easier to fit down there, and you can tap it in with a wood shim and a hammer.

 

[Steve42]

If you had just reinstalled the rubber gasket, it most likely would have been fine.

She reinstalled it after it came up, but it leaked after that. I don't recall ever seeing any caulk around that piece that is now spinning. Do you recommend trying to lift and spin the piece in an attempt top get the nut to tighten up some, reinsert the gasket, and caulk the outer ring?

 

[Terry]

If the flange is not tight to the pan, then it needs resealing. If you can tighten it from above, more power to you. Normally I have to replace the shower drain in that case.

 

[Smooky]

There is a retaining nut screwed onto the existing drain. If you had access underneath it might could be tightened and the drain resealed, but you do not have access to tighten the retaining nut, so you have to remove the existing drain. In other words you have to tear it out gently without damaging the shower.

 

[Steve42]

If the flange is not tight to the pan, then it needs resealing. If you can tighten it from above, more power to you. Normally I have to replace the shower drain in that case.

That's what I'm thinking too. The strange thing is that the piece you see moving in the video was loose at all. We didn't move it around until I started trying to figure out how to remove it, and it was moving like that as soon as I tried. How that didn't leak before, I don't know...

I know I need to be extremely careful around the pan however I try to cut it. Perhaps a
Close Quarter Hacksaw (like this) will do the trick.

 

[Steve42]

Duplicate Post deleted

 

[Steve42]

The wife asked me to verify that I could not get to the shower drain from underneath, so I used my poor mans's inspection camera (iPhone and a 8 foot pole along with a couple of elastic bands) to snake back into the wall following the drain pipe. You can see from this video that the shower pan sits atop a wooden platform with a channel for the drain pipe and trap itself, but even if we cut a hole in the drywall wall behind the shower, there's no way to get your arm down the channel beside the drain to tighten the nut by hand.

I went to Harbor Freight and bought a 6 in. Mini Hacksaw to cut the drain out from the top, and I have ordered the
BruCo 2" Pull Tight Shower Drain Compression - PVCBH222P online, so I will post some install pics when I get the stuff in.

 

[Steve42]

I got the old drain removed tonight. The gap between the drain side and the 2" drain pipe was too small for the mini hacksaw, so I used a 5/16" drill bit to nibble away at the lower lip of the drain and the smallest chisel I own to attack the outer wall of the drain.

It took about 15 minutes of extremely cautious work and when the wedge I broke loose dropped out, I squeezed the drain and the nut slipped down so the drain came out easily.

Not wanting the nut to potentially get in the way, I used a coat hanger to hook it and pull it up so I could clip it with wire dikes and pull it out.

Now I'm just waiting for the drain to arrive.