Pressure Drop - whole house filter - Aquapure AP903

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M V

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There is nothing particularly wrong with this filter.

As some have pointed out that you need a coarser filter upstream of this filter.

They are correct.

This filter incorporates a 5 micron filter in addition to the GAC carbon filter.

Five microns is 0.000197 in (0.005 mm).

Cigarette smoke is 2 microns and a red blood cell is 12 microns.

Solids in the water are of two forms:

1. DS dissolved solids (minerals, metals etc.) that are dissolved in the water (reverse osmosis and molecular sieves (1 micron or smaller (micro filtration)) will remove most of them).

2. SS suspended solids (larger particles that aren't dissolved).

Suspended solids are an issue besides quickly clogging up the 5 micron filter that your using, biological contaminants can attach themselves to these and cause a whole range of problems especially if you're removing 85% of the 2 ppm concentration of chlorine in city water.

If the TSS (total suspended solids) gets two high the water appears cloudy.

The higher the TSS is the higher the turbidity is and it becomes more cloudy (like muddy river water).

With no coarser filtration upstream, if your water is turbid enough the larger size particles will prematurely clog your 5 micron filter.

The solution is to place coarser (larger micron rated) filters upstream of this.

In large systems that I've done before (3 million gpd) the rule of thumb is that each stage of filtration is 1 order of magnitude finer than the previous one.

In the case of my own personal system:

1. the first stage is a Watts Series 88S strainer with a 100 mesh (149 micron absolute optional liner) (being a strainer you only have to open the strainer empty the basket and rinse it out).

2. the second stage is a 3M Cuno Micro-Klean RT series thermally bonded polypropylene depth filter rated at 75 micron nominal.

3. the third stage is a 3M Cuno Micro-Klean RT series thermally bonded polypropylene depth filter rated at 10 micron nominal.

4. the fourth stage is a 3M Aqua-Pure AP903 GAC (carbon) filter rated at 5 micron nominal (I only wanted chlorine removal from this filter).

5. the fifth stage is a 3M Cuno Micro-Klean RT series thermally bonded polypropylene depth filter rated at 1 micron nominal.

There are a two pumps in the system.

The first pump is between filtration stages 1 and 2 and the second pump is between filtration stages 4 and 5.

Pressure controlled variable speed drives power the two pumps.

Enough about my system.

With the 3M Aqua-Pure AP903 GAC (carbon) filter rated at 5 micron nominal I would recommend the following:

1. the first stage is a Watts Series 88S strainer with a 100 mesh (149 micron absolute optional liner)

2. the second stage is a 50 micron nominal rated filter.

3. the third stage is the 3M Aqua-Pure AP903 GAC (carbon) filter rated at 5 micron nominal.

If you do something like this you should get the following results with the 3M Aqua-Pure AP903:

A. Up to 75,000 gallons removal of 90% of chlorine (if your city like mine uses 2 ppm chlorine then you'll have 200 ppb of chlorine remaining).

B. A. 75,000 to 100,000 gallons removal of 85% of chlorine (if your city like mine uses 2 ppm chlorine then you'll have 300 ppb of chlorine remaining).

C. A. 100,000 to 150,000 gallons removal of 75% of chlorine (if your city like mine uses 2 ppm chlorine then you'll have 500 ppb of chlorine remaining).

According to 3M Aqua-Pure the pressure drop across the 3M Aqua-Pure AP903:

I. with it clean (new) is 3 to 5 psid.

II. with it dirty (expended) is 35 psid.

Which is why I use the booster pumps.

I hope this helps.

Just as an aside when you remove the chlorine (or most of it) before you heat it in your water heater you increase the risk of getting Legionnaires greatly increases.

Considering how deadly this disease is this isn't something to trifle with.

A water temperature of 120°F does not kill the Legionella bacteria (even more so when you've removed the chlorine); a minimum temperature of 140°F is required at which Legionellae dies in 32 minutes. Hence it is recommended that the water heater be set at a temperature of 140°F. The Legionella disinfection range is 158 – 176 °F.

A tempering or mixing valve will resolve the scalding problems that result from increasing the hot water heaters temperature.

Whether you have a tank or tank less hot water heater this will work and as a bonus you get a larger effective capacity of hot water from your existing hot water heater.

And as the heat transfer in the hot water heater is occurring at a higher temperature the heat transfer is marginally more efficient.

As this thread involves removing chlorine from the whole house water it involves removing chlorine from the hot water; thus, the hot water heater's temperature is important.

If your city uses chloramine to treat the water it requires a different filter for a 20 gpm flow rate as with chloramine the residence time required (larger filter is the result) increases three fold.
 

Lordoftheflies

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Update. I listened to all your advice. 3M did send me a 802 set up plus filter plus bracket free of charge.

After finally getting Tarrytown to fix my water pressure (was getting <20psi dynamic and now am getting 75psi) after moving me from the old 6" main to the new 10".......I decided it was time to either get an entirely new system...or just hook up the 802 before the 903. So since I had all the parts and some spare copper...I went ahead and installed the 802.

Basically I was able to cut the pipe and scootch the AP903 setup over (pro press fittings) and just sweated in regular copper fittings since I don't have pro press tools. Had to angle out using two 45 elbows because the 802 diameter is much larger than the 903.

I also added a valve and a pressure gauge in between the two filters.

Everything went in pretty nicely and had no leaks which was the best part.

My new filters are set to arrive tonight. I just hooked everything up with the old 917 filter to make sure there were no leaks.

In hindsight I suppose the only thing I could have done differently would have been to use 1" pipe between the two filters. The whole house is setup with 3/4" copper, pex, and brass. But I suppose with that short length it wouldn't make too much of a difference....or would it? I guess I can always redo it.

Here's the original setup done by a plumber who shall remain nameless even though he was incompetent in many ways.


24360600692_13ba610df4_c.jpg


Here's a picture of the gauge on the left when the incoming street pressure was terrible.

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Here's where I cut....I wanted to put another shut off above so that I could turn on the house water and not have my wife yell at me whilst I continued my plumbing fun.

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Here it is all roughed in no solder yet.

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And here it is all soldered and filters connected.

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The new filters are supposed to arrive tonight! Keeping my fingers crossed that this does the trick. Can't be replacing the $145 Ap917 filter every two weeks....If the 810-2 filter lasts 3-4 months I'll be happy with that.....at $45 each......and if that makes the 917 filter last 1 year....I'll be really happy about that!

Oh and here's a picture of the cold water inline filter for the Rinna RU98i tankless water heater I have. I clean the filter out every 3 months or so. Totally gross.

24173664750_83461e7ec8_c.jpg
 

Lordoftheflies

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Ok I bought one of those cheap $30 micro usb boroscopes. I wanted to see if my main sewer line had issues...but it didn't really light up that well. Anyways, I stuck it down the AP917HD cartridge that has been sitting and not in use for at least a year and a half after clogging 2 weeks after I installed it.

You can see me swirl it around a few times. There are some LARGE pieces of what looks like wood.

Obviously most of the particulates are trapped in the carbon block...but are these pieces of carbon? If not man my city water is DIRTY!

Click here for the video.

 
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Reach4

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Is that first filter a 4.5 by 20 inch cartridge? Pentek Big Blue filter housings use that size. If so, there are a lot of choices if there is not something that makes the elements incompatible. ThePentek DGD-5005-20 cartridge is dual-gradient 50-5 micron.

When you take the housing off, I would put a light coat of silicone grease on the O-ring. I keep a spare O-ring handy in case I had a failure getting things back together. Since I don't have a filter bypass, I would be out of water if my O-ring went bad and I did not have a replacement.
 

Lordoftheflies

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Is that first filter a 4.5 by 20 inch cartridge? Pentek Big Blue filter housings use that size. If so, there are a lot of choices if there is not something that makes the elements incompatible. ThePentek DGD-5005-20 cartridge is dual-gradient 50-5 micron.

When you take the housing off, I would put a light coat of silicone grease on the O-ring. I keep a spare O-ring handy in case I had a failure getting things back together. Since I don't have a filter bypass, I would be out of water if my O-ring went bad and I did not have a replacement.

It's a 3M Aquapure 802...so yes, it takes a generic 4.5 x 20" filter. Currently am using a 810-2 filter that filters down to 5 microns as well (they sent it to me for free so I'm gonna use it). However, the video is before I added the pre filter.

I didn't have any food grade lubricant (since ordered) so I used a little coconut oil...which, during the winter, kinda looks and feels like grease. If I try hard enough I can taste a little coconut flavor in my water now. Hahaha. Next time I have a tube of Haynes Lubri-film ready to go.
 

Lordoftheflies

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http://haynesmfg.com/2015/12/product-spotlight-haynes-lubri-film-plus/ does not specifically mention seals and O-rings. I use
Molykote 111.

Well it should work just fine. Food grade, non toxic, lubricant.

On a somewhat sad note I have already noticed a 10psi drop between the 810-2 filter and the 917HD filter. After only 10 days (and this was two days ago). So this means.....that there is something else that is clogging up the filter. I'm keeping my fingers crossed but I expect the pressure to drop exponentially in the next few days. The original 917HD filter by itself only lasted 10 days. I don't have high hopes for this one. And will most likely have to call up 3M and complain again. Perhaps I will ask them to give me another AP802 system and just forgo the AP903/917HD. I had my water tested *by 3M* and they gave me the thumbs up so I don't understand why this is not working.
 
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Lordoftheflies

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These photos were taken today Jan-30-2016 with the basement sink cold water running. Both filters were installed on Jan-18-2016.

Now after two additional days you can see even more pressure drop. Yay. From just above 60 to just below 45. Joy.

This shows the pressure drop between the two filters.

2016-01-30 13.37.41.jpg


This shows there is almost no pressure drop before and after the 810-2 filter.

2016-01-30 13.37.58.jpg


Here you can see the incoming pressure from the main is right at 70psi.

2016-01-30 13.37.47.jpg
 

Reach4

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Now after two additional days you can see even more pressure drop. Yay. From just above 60 to just below 45. Joy.
Those gauges tell the story. I wish I had that inter-filter pressure gauge. I think you are saying that originally the 917HD GAC filter had much lower drop, and it is getting clogged progressively in just a few days. I guess the theory is that the first cartridge is letting stuff thru that clogs the GAC filter.

If I were continuing with this setup, I would look at a finer pre-filter cartridge.

Maybe the PENTEK WP1BB20P They say that is good down to 1 micron. Looking at my WP1BB20P cartridge, it looks more porous than my PENTEK DGD-5005-20 cartridge does. But I think they must have a good basis for the 1 micron rating.

Would that make a big difference? I don't know.

Another alternative is to replace your small GAC filter with a backwashing a activated carbon filter for chlorine removal -- which I think is what you are trying to accomplish with your GAC filter cartridge. That looks like a water softener. That would be effective, but I understand that sounds drastic. Such a filter would typically go first in line and a fine particle filter could follow that if you wanted. A cartridge could precede the backwashing filter, but that would be unusual. You could have the cartridge in line but empty of an element.
 

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I will call 3m tomorrow. I'm seeing a 20psi pressure drop between the two filters today. New filters were install Jan-18-16 so we are talking about 15 days!!!
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With both the hot water and the cold water running from the sink in the basement and no other water use in the house, this is what I saw today. Luckily for me supplyhouse.com is accepting my return of the AP917HD filter. What a piece of junk. Called 3M and they refuse to help me any further saying they sent me too many filters already. So I suppose it's ok to sell a product that doesn't deliver....that only works when the water is clean already...even though it was tested *by them* to be well within their recommended limits.

This is horrible. At least the AP810-2 filter seems to be holding up. Knock on wood. I'm going to rip out the AP903 head and be done with it. Maybe I will pick up a Pentek big blue housing which appears to be exactly the same as the 802 housing.

2016-02-08 14.19.48.jpg
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Lordoftheflies

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Those gauges tell the story. I wish I had that inter-filter pressure gauge. I think you are saying that originally the 917HD GAC filter had much lower drop, and it is getting clogged progressively in just a few days. I guess the theory is that the first cartridge is letting stuff thru that clogs the GAC filter.

If I were continuing with this setup, I would look at a finer pre-filter cartridge.

Maybe the PENTEK WP1BB20P They say that is good down to 1 micron. Looking at my WP1BB20P cartridge, it looks more porous than my PENTEK DGD-5005-20 cartridge does. But I think they must have a good basis for the 1 micron rating.

Would that make a big difference? I don't know.

Another alternative is to replace your small GAC filter with a backwashing a activated carbon filter for chlorine removal -- which I think is what you are trying to accomplish with your GAC filter cartridge. That looks like a water softener. That would be effective, but I understand that sounds drastic. Such a filter would typically go first in line and a fine particle filter could follow that if you wanted. A cartridge could precede the backwashing filter, but that would be unusual. You could have the cartridge in line but empty of an element.


Also to clarify the AP917HD filter is not a GAC. It is a carbon block. Something must be wrong with this design for it to clog up in 2-3 weeks on city water.....even with a prefilter at 5 microns.
 

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So after further research....I found out that the AP917HD filter is an axial flow filter....the filter only allows water to pass through the carbon block from the bottom.

I ripped out the AP903....and threw it in the garbage. Luckily I was able to return the AP917HD filter for a full refund from the online seller.

I bought a Pentek Big Blue housing and installed a Pentek RFC-20BB GAC filter....and this is a radial flow filter...which allows the incoming water to pass through the granular activated carbon from the entire length of the filter.

Installed yesterday so we will see how long this lasts. There is a noticeable difference in the quality of the water now.

I used sharkbite fittings so I can take it apart if necessary.

2016-02-18 16.40.00.jpg
 

Reach4

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Nice looking installation. You do have some space where you can drop the sumps without interference from that horizontal pipe, I presume.
 

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Update:

I just had both my filters last less than a month. They are building the new Tappan Zee bridge here and have been digging up the roads all over the place. There was a major water main break and who knows what else is going on but look at the sheer amount of MUD in my 20-5 micron sediment filter and the 5micron GAC filter. I just replaced the filters less than a week ago and all of a sudden saw a massive 20psi pressure drop on the sediment filter. Replaced it and it looks like the mud is just sticking to the surface of the filter as I was able to see that the inside of the filter was pretty much new. You can see where I scraped the mud with my finger in the first pic. It must be at least 1/16" thick!

I just ordered a Rusco 3/4-100STSS-F spin down sediment trapper. This has a 100 mesh (154micron) stainless steel filter and can be flushed manually. I hope I ordered the right size. I'm not exactly sure what micron mud is......but if this proves to be the wrong size I can always choose a difference size internal mesh or just install another Rusco.

I'm concerned about how often I will need to flush it. I suppose doing it once a week is ok but I don't want to have to manually flush the thing every day and buying the $300 automatic setup is not an option.

I'm going to shift everything over to the right and move the outlet to the right about 2 feet.

The other thing I can do is install a larger micron filter instead of the 20-5. It's obvious that 20micron is too fine as the mud is just sticking to the surface now.

This is city water too although Tarrytown has an exemption for NYS turbidity laws since they don't have a sediment filtering plant.

sediment filter 1 month.jpg
gac filter 1 month.jpg
sediment filter 1 week.jpg
 

Reach4

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Do some searching on pleated vs spun filters. I had figured that the thicker media would trap more, but later reading seems to suggest not. Especially in your case, where the junk is on the outside, the pleated filter for at least the first cartridge would seem to make sense.

I suggest that you scrape some junk off of the filter, and stir that into a glass jar. How long does it take to get stuff to settle out? That will help tell what you are dealing with.

Remember to have spare o-rings.

Twist2clean filters are often recommended as being easier to clean vs Rusco.

Are your outside hose bibs before or after the filtering. Presuming before, opening those full blast might wash some stuff out of the pipes.

Congratulations on having the filters in the first place!
 
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Lordoftheflies

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Hi Reach4,

I have spare o-rings. Always gotta have spares of everything!

Will see how the rusco goes. Just finished installing it. Just cut the copper where I could (barely had enough room) and skootched it all over.

Immediately after turning the water on I could see stuff collecting at the bottom of the rusco.... Woo hoo!

I ended up getting the 100 mesh size ~ 150 microns. I was thinking maybe I should up it to 200 mesh ~75 microns but I won't know until I see how long the filters last and how often I need to flush the Rusco.

I think the Rusco is extremely easy to clean - all you have to do is open the ball valve at the bottom and the water flushes the stainless filter from the outside. They suggest that once in a while you take out the stainless mesh and clean it but since I have shut off valves all over the place that's easy to do as well.

The hose bib I use for the driveway/cars is before the filters. The plumbers who initially did the set up tee'd off the main line after the filter for the hose bib in the back of the house but I never use that.......so one day when I get some extra pex I'll run a line to that bib.

Here's a pic and a video of the rusco in action. For those interested I ordered the 3/4-100stss-f (3/4" fpt connections, 100mesh, st = stainless, -f = with flush valve) from www.freshwatersystems.com.

Thanks for the suggestion on the pleated filters. I will look into that.

Click on the link to see the video.

https://goo.gl/photos/Aio2n2bgdAehn9ds9

2017-05-08 15.23.39.jpg

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