New Fleck 7000 Katalox Light Filter Not Removing Iron

[Terry Richards]

Greetings,

Many thanks to all the contributors on this forum for creating an amazing archive of all things plumbing.

Background: Well water (10 GPM tested), south suburbs of Chicago. Hardness 30 gpg, TDS 450 ppm, Iron 7 ppm. 20 year old 1.5 cu/ft softener was not keeping up with iron, creating whole house issues with toilet/laundry staining and clear evidence of IRB’s. IRB inferred by dark slimy tank and sulfur smell in hot water, always solved temporarily by introducing peroxide into the water heater.

After research on this forum (thanks again!), decided on the following solution:

• Repipe copper from ¾” → 1” from pressure tank to filter complex
• Repurpose existing 10x54 tank with gravel and 1.5 cu/ft Katalox Light
• Iron filter uses new Fleck 7000 softener valve, pot-perm tank and dilute bleach solution for regeneration every 2 days
• Valve DLFC was changed out for 7 GPM button
• New 13x54 tank, gravel, 2.5 cu/ft 8% cation
• Softener uses new Fleck 7000 softener valve. original salt tank

When the iron filter was first brought online, it was water nirvana. I observed the TDS drop from 450 → 300 ppm (unsure if this is related in any way to iron reduction) and I could not detect the slightest taste of iron or smell of sulphur. I honestly wondered if the 2.5 cu/ft softener was even warranted!

Fast forward 3 weeks: softener is working like a champ, regenerating every 10 days with completely soft water through the entire duration (as tested with Hach 5b). The iron filter however, appears to have stopped working as TDS is back up to 450 exiting the filter and there is a distinct iron taste though no apparent sulfur. The water quality is nearly indistinguishable from the raw well. This implies the water softener is doing the job for both currently, removing up to 7 ppm of iron.

What I have checked:

• inspected injector and screen, both nominal
• Performed drain line smell test. There is no immediate smell of bleach, but is evident after only 3 minutes
• Removed valve and thoroughly inspected distributor and distributor interface. Note this is a 1.05” size with the 61419 adapter installed and the original o-ring and snap-ring removed. I cannot remove the adapter and while it did not “snap” in place, it appears installed correctly
• Stepped up regeneration from 3 → 2 days. B1: 7, BD: 60, B2: 3, RR: 6, BF: 16

None of these steps appear to have worked and I can detect iron from the output right after regeneration. I did note the valve in question received “rough shipment”, though it appears completely fine, has never thrown an error code, and cycles without issue.

Any suggestions on how to definitely diagnose the distributor would be very helpful. This would allow me to concentrate on whether this may be PH or IRB related.

Regards and a Happy New Year,

Terry Richards

 

[Reach4]

I would measure the backwash rate of the KL filter by using a bucket. 7 GPM is marginal. 10 would be better. Make sure you are at least able to get the full 7 GPM. Perhaps a bigger drain line would help. I would go to a bigger (maybe 9 GPM) DLFC if your controller supports it. (see https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/katalox-light.55338/#post-466326) A 10 inch tank is about 0.55 square inches cross section, so 15 GPM/sqft would be 8.18 GPM. You referred to a 61419 adapter for the KL filter controller, and that implies a Fleck 7000, which would. Does your water pressure maintain at 30 PSI or more during the full backwash? Is the pressure rising when the pump runs during a backwash?

Maybe backwashing more frequently will help.

I would sanitize my whole system. http://www.moravecwaterwells.com/index.php/maintainance/disinfection-and-testing is the method I like for the well part. Also consider a powered anode in the water heater.

I am not a pro. I have done some study.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Terry Richards]

I would measure the backwash rate of the KL filter by using a bucket. 7 GPM is marginal. 10 would be better. Make sure you are at least able to get the full 7 GPM. Perhaps a bigger drain line would help, or even consider removing the DLFC button. Does your water pressure maintain at 30 PSI or more during the full backwash? Is the pressure rising when the pump runs during a backwash?

I would sanitize my whole system. http://www.moravecwaterwells.com/index.php/maintainance/disinfection-and-testing is the method I like for the well part. Also consider a powered anode in the water heater.

Thanks for the reply and definitely agree on well disinfection, just been a bit cold outside since completing the install.

Regarding backwash rates and PSI. Drain lines are 1" pex approx 20' in length. I removed the the button and ran two consecutive cycles to observe pressure. Flow to the drain was > 10 GPM, and the pump stabilized at approx 50 PSI for the duration. Pressure switch is currently set to 40/64 by previous owner, though I have replaced the tank. With the 7 GPM button installed, the pump cycles as it is able to achieve cut-out pressure. After consecutive cycles of the valve, I was still able to detect iron on the test port after the filter.

 

[Reach4]

Note that the filter needs an oxidizer. Often the disolved oxygen in the water is enough, but you have a lot of iron. Maybe a micronizer or some other thing would be needed. Look through the KL literature.

Suppose you reduce the flow rate as you draw your sample. Does the iron level improve? http://www.watchwater.com/systems/kl_system.php seems to be working, and you will see they recommend more media than you have.

Note this from the brochure:

Regeneration/Dosing (optional*)
*Only if the water doesn't have sufficient oxygen to
oxidize the contaminants. It also helps to clean the
media surface better if used at the backwash
*Only if the water doesn't have sufficient oxygen to
oxidize the contaminants. It also helps to clean the
media surface better if used at the backwash
​

You could perhaps take your brine tank, and use that as a solution tank by using BD but not BF. Click Inbox.

 

[Bannerman]

You mention that the O-ring at the top of the riser was removed. If the top riser connection is not water tight to the valve, the incoming water can then bypass the media, exiting the tank without being treated.

The water should be entering through the valve, above the KL media, flowing down through the media and then flowing up the riser out to the fixtures. If the riser connection is not water tight, the water will enter at the top of the tank and then leak out around the riser connection without flowing through the media. I suspect a leak as you mention smelling bleach at the drain, very shortly after the bleach draw commences.

 

[Terry Richards]

You mention that the O-ring at the top of the riser was removed. If the top riser connection is not water tight to the valve, the incoming water can then bypass the media, exiting the tank without being treated.

The water should be entering through the valve, above the KL media, flowing down through the media and then flowing up the riser out to the fixtures. If the riser connection is not water tight, the water will enter at the top of the tank and then leak out around the riser connection without flowing through the media. I suspect a leak as you mention smelling bleach at the drain, very shortly after the bleach draw commences.

Thanks for the reply, Bannerman. The o-ring I removed was the original along with the plastic lock-ring prior to installing the 61419 adapter (which has it's own set of o-rings). Through inspection and the fact that I installed the adapter on both valves indicates it was done properly, I cannot ignore that 3 minutes does seem too soon for bleach to be evident on the drain line.

I could pop both valves off and try the softener one on the iron filter for a positive diagnosis, but have been trying to avoid that hassle.

 

[Bannerman]

Since you needed to install the adaptor, did you then cut any length off the riser tube before gluing on the adapter, to ensure the riser & adapter were the proper length prior to installing the valve?

If the riser's total length was too long, the riser would then be jammed between the valve and the tank bottom when the valve was screwed on, potentially breaking the riser tube or the bottom screen. A riser tube broken below the upper surface of the media, could not be seen when looking into the media tank.

 

[Terry Richards]

Riser is 3/4" PVC cut flush with the tank top. This appears the proper height with the adapter or without. Thanks.

 

[montelatici]

My Katalox iron filter works like a champ with backwashing every 3 days. Installed before water softener and backwashing carbon filter.

Katalox Backwashing filter-->Water softener---> Backwashing carbon filter

 

[ditttohead]

Troubleshooting the riser is fairly easy. What color is the injector? Use the chart in the manual to determine the brine draw. It should take at least a few minutes to sense bleach at the drain. Get an accurate time to sense bleach to the drain, and post the injector color here. Are you using the chlorine tablet or bleach dilution design for this application? Set the b2 to 0 minutes (not off).

 

[Terry Richards]

Thanks for the reply. Will set b2 to 0 and pull the injector again to check color. I smell bleach on the drain line 3 minutes into the brine draw.

Due to space constraints, I was trying to use a pot-perm tank with a dilute bleach solution. Reasoning was that even if I neglected to add bleach for a couple of weeks, the solution would simply get progressively more dilute. This may have been misguided, though I have attempted to keep a 30-1 ratio in there to this point.

I did perform a recent check of iron and PH which were 3.8 (much less than the 7PPM originally measured) and 6.5 from the well. I measured 1.0PPM out of the Katalox filter so it is removing the majority of the iron. The softener takes care of the rest (0PPM) and the water tests completely soft.

Definitely working, but still odd that a 1.5 cu/ft Katalox filter is only removing 2.8 of 3.8PPM iron.

Regards,

Terry

 

[ditttohead]

At a lower pH, and without an orp reading, we can only assume the system needs an oxidant. Since you are using a pot-perm tank, try using a Chlorine tablet or Pot Perm. Their are some parts inside the Pot Perm tank that get worn by the chlorine so expect to replace the internal float every year or so. Some people simply remove the float assembly and only use an air check. If you are using liquid bleach, your design would require the bleach be replenished every regeneration. With a 3" tablet, you should do a little better. Let us know the results.

 

[Terry Richards]

Continue to get disappointing iron removal. BLFC is .125 and I've attached a picture of the injector. Morning after regeneration, water is approx .5 PPM but by the evening of day 2, I am passing 2.0 PPM (of 3.5 - 3.8) onto the softener. I have not yet transitioned to 3" tablets but continue to keep the bleach concentration at approximately 30-1.

I do notice that during brine draw, the ~ 3 gallons in the tank are quickly sucked in (7-10 minutes?) and then the rest of the cycle is slow rinse. Should I consider a larger tank capacity for the bleach solution? Is a PH of 6.5 simply too low for Katalox to work effectively, requiring alternatives or additions to the system design?

Thanks!

 

[ditttohead]

pH is only one factor. ORP, DO, etc, all need to be considered. Using a pot perm tank with a liquid chlorine solution is a little difficult since you have to refill the chlorine every time it regenerates.

Try doing a richer bleach solution for a couple regeneration cycles and see if that kicks it up. The chlorine tablet would probably work a lot better since you don't have to constantly monitor it, but the tablet design is less controlled of course.

For liquid chlorine regenerations, it is more common to use a very short brine draw cycle and a larger tank.

5 minute BW
2-7 minute brine draw (depending on chlorine concentration, injector size etc...)
5 minute fast rinse (be sure the bleach is rinsed out of the system adequately
1 minute refill to purge the brine lines, injectors of bleach.

 

[ENIGMA-2]

I'm in no way an expert and am only offering a personal opinion on this. But if it were me, the first thing I would do is dump a 1/2 jar of Red Out into a gallon of hot water, pour it into the brine well and start a manual regeneration. It does sound like your resin is iron locked.

Don't know if this is a viable solution, (several others here know what their taking about and can better advise), but using salt with red out might control you problem. I use Diamond Sun Gems with red out and it states it will control iron up to 2 ppm.

 

[WellOff]

I suppose I missed this party, but for reference, if you have IRB you MUST treat it FIRST. Because you have IRB AND you have a need for an oxidant I'd suggest doing injection of bleach or peroxide BEFORE you hit the KL (or anything else). IRB acts as a shield around the iron. I recently contacted Industrial Test Systems (makers of eXact micro) about iron testing and they pretty much told me that their tests won't be reliable if you have IRB- you have to kill the IRB: as a result I stopped taking raw water samples and instead started taking samples AFTER my contact tank, which is preceded by H2O2 injection just before the tank.

I barged in on this thread because I'm trying to resolve my manganese issue and believe that KL is the thing that will do that.

 

[ditttohead]

KL is a great alternative to most of the other medias currently available. IRB is miserable but is usually easily solved as you stated. Most people get great results with a simple well shock. The IRB takes time to recolonize so intermittent well sanitizing is a popular treatment option.

As to the riser issue...