Air Volume Control Valve Function

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JVance

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Setup: Shallow well, jet pump, 120 gallon bladderless tank.
Problem: Too much air in the tank, too little water...draws down until air is introduced into house plumbing.

This has been a reoccurring problem over the years, usually noticing small amounts of air in the house plumbing following the backflow/regeneration of our iron filter overnight (indicating the iron filter completely drew down the system until water from the house flowed back to the storage tank?). Once or twice per year it's bad enough that I have to shut off the pump and purge the tank.

This style of air volume control valve (Brady) was installed with the tank, located half-way up the tank:
well-part-airvolume-control-brady.jpg


I replaced the valve a few years back (suspecting a bad valve was the problem), but this did not help. I recently read a post from another member on this forum who claimed that the valve 'with the line that returns to the pump' only lets air into the tank. Is this, in fact, the case with this style of valve?

Would this type of valve be the solution?
image.asbx


Or should I add some other valve to the top of the tank to purge the excess air?

Thanks in advance!
 

JVance

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FWIW, I have searched the forum for info to answer this question myself, but all I seem to find are either problems with a waterlogged tank, or problems with too much air in a tank when running a submersible pump (in which case, the air leak is typically traced to one of three components other than the air volume control valve...components I don't have with my shallow well pump).

I just need to confirm whether the Brady valve pictured above performs any function whatsoever to let air out of the tank.
 

Valveman

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The Brady only works with jet pumps a d only puts air into the tank. Tha AVC with the float lets excess air out until the float floats. You need both.

You would not have that problem with a bladder tank and when used with a CSV a 4.5 gallon size bladder tank is all you need.
 

JVance

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The Brady only works with jet pumps a d only puts air into the tank. Tha AVC with the float lets excess air out until the float floats. You need both.
Thank you! This is exactly the information I needed.

You would not have that problem with a bladder tank and when used with a CSV a 4.5 gallon size bladder tank is all you need.

I have a very low producing well, and power is not reliable here in heavy storms. I'll keep my large tank.
 

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A low producing well just sees a large pressure tank as an extra load to fill. A 120 gallon tank with the right amount og air only holds about 30 gallon of water under pressure.

You could use that tank for storage and it would hold 120 gallons. Then a little booster pump would draw from that and supply the pressure to the house. The pressure tank on the booter pump would supply a little water when the power goes out. But a little generator would keep it running until you ran out of the 120 gallons in the storage tank. Power grid seems to be less dependable every day. 120 gallons could last quite a while if needed.
 

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I caught it, Texas Wellman...and I've even managed a quick shower with the power out :)

You just happen to be lucky that when the power went out you had close to 60 PSI in the tank (assuming a 40/60 switch). If the pressure had been 41 or so when the power went off, you would not have gotten even a quick shower.
 

JVance

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You just happen to be lucky that when the power went out you had close to 60 PSI in the tank (assuming a 40/60 switch). If the pressure had been 41 or so when the power went off, you would not have gotten even a quick shower.

But even at 41 psi, I wouldn't be as so unlucky to have nothing left in a 4.5 gallon tank...
 

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If the "bladderless" tank is pre-charged properly with air, there won' be any water in it either if the power cuts off when the pressure is at 41. If the "bladderless" tank is not pre-charged with air, you might still have 10 gallons left when the power shuts off at 41, but it will just dribble out the faucet with no pressure. You certainly won't be taking a shower.

Everybody sees those big tanks and thinks they have a lot of water stored. If the power is only off for a short time you might be OK. But if the power is off for hours or days, you are out of luck and out of water.
 

JVance

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If the "bladderless" tank is pre-charged properly with air, there won' be any water in it either if the power cuts off when the pressure is at 41. If the "bladderless" tank is not pre-charged with air, you might still have 10 gallons left when the power shuts off at 41, but it will just dribble out the faucet with no pressure. You certainly won't be taking a shower.

Who cares about the shower. Hurricane + impassable roads + power outage = I can still drink water. Perhaps 10 gallons of it.
 

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Who cares about the shower. Hurricane + impassable roads + power outage = I can still drink water. Perhaps 10 gallons of it.

Agreed. But with 120 gallons of storage you could have a gallon to drink everyday for months. I forget, how long was the power off during that last big ice storm in the northeast?
 

JVance

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Indeed. I will probably work towards converting at least 1 of my 120 gallon tanks (I have a spare) into a storage tank later this year. I need to find a solution for a water-level switch, since the tank does not allow the ease of access of a cistern (and I'm not keen on cutting and welding on a galvanized tank).
Is there any reason to run a specific booster-pump, or would an inexpensive jet pump (like my 3/4 HP Goulds) do the job, since it would be gravity-fed from the storage tank?
 

JVance

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Gotchya! And since I'm tapping your knowledge here, any recommendations on how to vent the tank while keeping bugs/critters/dust out of it? Would 2 shraeder valves (one to let air out, the other to let air in, with or without filters) do the trick? Or is there a device available for this purpose?
 

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One vent for in and out is fine. They make a double elbow fitting with a screen pointing down to vent well casing. That will work on the tank storage as well. You can probably put a 2" tee on top of the tank for a Warrick Liquid level probe kit. Then on the side of that tee you could add a screened vent, and you only need one elbow this way to make the screen face downward.
 

DonL

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This style of air volume control valve (Brady) was installed with the tank, located half-way up the tank:
well-part-airvolume-control-brady.jpg

I took mine off and threw it in the trash, after replacing them for years.

They do make different ones, Is the one you have made for your size tank ?

Good Luck.
 

PumpMd

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here is a diagram for the BW Controls
 

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PumpMd

Kevin
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look 5 post up and something to take a look at below for a weak well setup and you also run everything in conduit as well.
 

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