Best overall boiler company?

[Terryj]

Hi all: I have purchased two very high-efficient boilers in the last 12yrs. Both were major mfrs. and both were trouble from day one. One repair man said that the high-efficient furnaces are so intricate now that they are hard to work on and one tiny glitch can be a big headache. I am now looking for a furnace with side exhaust that doesn't have to be "super" efficient,just more basic and reliable. I would rather spend more per winter and have a furnace that doesn't need baby-sitting every month by a service man. Is there a boiler mfg that is more reliable then the others? thanks

 

[Dana]

The terms "boiler", and "furnace" are not interchangeable terms. One uses water as the heat distribution fluid, the other uses air.

There are many good boiler manufacturers, but the boiler can only be as good as the system designers'/installers' design and implementation, and the level local technical support for the product. The notion that "...high-efficient furnaces are so intricate now that they are hard to work on and one tiny glitch can be a big headache..." is not generally true. But there is a wealth of ignorance out there about how properly design hydronic systems, leading to many incompetent system designs and incompetent installations, leading to lower efficiency and poor reliability. There are far more problems with the implementations than there are with the boilers themselves. If it's set up incorrectly, sure there are problems, but if it's a reasonable design and installation, aside from annual or even more seldom maintenance they should go for 15-30 years. If you use a cell phone as a flyswatter and it keeps breaking, is it the fault of cell phone manufacturer?

For the record, which two boilers (make & model) have you gone through in the past dozen years?

If you're looking for boiler replacement recommendations, we'd need to know a lot more about the heating system, starting with the design heat load, the number of zones and the amount/type of radiation on each zone, etc.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Terryj]

The terms "boiler", and "furnace" are not interchangeable terms. One uses water as the heat distribution fluid, the other uses air.

There are many good boiler manufacturers, but the boiler can only be as good as the system designers'/installers' design and implementation, and the level local technical support for the product. The notion that "...high-efficient furnaces are so intricate now that they are hard to work on and one tiny glitch can be a big headache..." is not generally true. But there is a wealth of ignorance out there about how properly design hydronic systems, leading to many incompetent system designs and incompetent installations, leading to lower efficiency and poor reliability. There are far more problems with the implementations than there are with the boilers themselves. If it's set up incorrectly, sure there are problems, but if it's a reasonable design and installation, aside from annual or even more seldom maintenance they should go for 15-30 years. If you use a cell phone as a flyswatter and it keeps breaking, is it the fault of cell phone manufacturer?

For the record, which two boilers (make & model) have you gone through in the past dozen years?,

If you're looking for boiler replacement recommendations, we'd need to know a lot more about the heating system, starting with the design heat load, the number of zones and the amount/type of radiation on each zone, etc.

Dana,thanks for the response. The first furnace was a Peerless. Four year warranty,made it 4yrs and one month of yearly breakdowns. Next furnace was a Weil-Mclain MH80 ,or something like that. Peerless was o2', Weil-Mclain was 07'. It has made it through the last two winters with only one stoppage since the tech disabled some of the perameters required to let it start. I guess I was just looking for a general answer. I've had a flooring store for many years and can tell people what company to buy from if they want a better chance of a floor with the longest expected life. I thought maybe there would be a general concensus among heating techs that brand xxxxx has generally fewer problems that they see. This may not be the case,but I was hoping this could be the case. In any case,thanks for your assistance.

 

[Dana]

Both companies make some very good high-efficiency boilers. Neither company makes furnaces. These are boilers.

What model Peerless?

Never heard of an MH80 boiler from Weil McLain, nor can I find it on their web site. Is it mayhaps the smallest of the Ultra, Ultra 2 or Ultra 3, with an 80MBH input?

The exact model names would be necessary to figure out the input & output BTUs, or any of the installation requirements that may or may not have been followed.

How much and what type of radiation do you have? (The amount by zone, if broken up into zones.)

If you have some mid to late winter fuel bills with exact dates and quantities, with a ZIP code we can work backward from heating degree data from a nearby weather station to come up with the approximate heat load.

Knowing both the heat load and the radiation are all-important first steps to picking a suitable boiler, whether a dumb-control mid-efficiency boiler or a modulating condensing boiler with all the bells & whistles.

 

[Terryj]

Both companies make some very good high-efficiency boilers. Neither company makes furnaces. These are boilers.

What model Peerless?

Never heard of an MH80 boiler from Weil McLain, nor can I find it on their web site. Is it mayhaps the smallest of the Ultra, Ultra 2 or Ultra 3, with an 80MBH input?

The exact model names would be necessary to figure out the input & output BTUs, or any of the installation requirements that may or may not have been followed.

How much and what type of radiation do you have? (The amount by zone, if broken up into zones.)

If you have some mid to late winter fuel bills with exact dates and quantities, with a ZIP code we can work backward from heating degree data from a nearby weather station to come up with the approximate heat load.

Knowing both the heat load and the radiation are all-important first steps to picking a suitable boiler, whether a dumb-control mid-efficiency boiler or a modulating condensing boiler with all the bells & whistles.

 

[Terryj]

Dana: Thanks again for your time. I no longer have any paperwork for the Peerless.The Weil-mclain is an Ultra 80. I will see what happens this year with the furnace. If I have more trouble,I will begin talking with local techs and compare what I am told. I have also been talking to my customers regarding how happy they are with their service people with regards to their heating systems. Then I will solicit various estimates from heating companies here. Its quite possible that there isn't a preferable boiler company as far as repair people go. Thanks so much for your input.

 

[Dana]

What furnace? You don't have a furnace.

The Ultra-80 is a boiler!

Having a very good handle on the system parameters is important when soliciting proposals, since it helps weed out the totally insane crap that always comes in. In my area there are dozens of heating contractors installing mod-con boilers, but at most only one out of every dozen sizing & installing it to perfection. If you have done at least the napkin math on it yourself you'll be able steer some of the less-insane contractors into a more-appropriate boiler choices.

Knowing both the heat load and the radiation are all-important first steps to picking a suitable boiler. We can calculate the whole house heat load reasonably accurately here on a fuel-use/HDD basis if you provide enough information, but you'd have to tell us the radiation & zones to know which solutions will work well and which ones really don't.

 

[Terryj]

Sorry about using the term furnace. Its what us non-professionals tend to use when discussing the device used to heat our homes. At any rate,I may be putting the cart before the horse as I am still going to wait to see if my "boiler" works this winter before I get serious about looking for a new one. Perhaps I should wait a while before picking your brains again,so I will come back here for assistance when I decide to get serious. I don't want to waste your valuable time at this time. Thanks much.