Pressure switch adjustment

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Zeugitai

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Hello!! I've been struggling with a well for a couple years now. Just replaced the pressure switch again (30-50 psi). I saw it cycling on and off pretty frequently so I went down there and watched it cycle from 30 to 40 again and again. I tried to tighten the "upper cutoff" spring on the right side, but this had no effect no matter how many turns I gave it. My switch is cycling on a 10 psi range and it seems I can't change it or widen it. Any ideas of what is going wrong here?
 

Valveman

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That is very rare for a pressure switch to do that. Make sure you don't have too much air pressure in the tank. 30/50 switch you need 28 PSI or less air in the tank. I am thinking you have your switch set at 20/40 and is comes back on at 30 because you have 30 PSI air in the tank.
 

Zeugitai

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That is very rare for a pressure switch to do that. Make sure you don't have too much air pressure in the tank. 30/50 switch you need 28 PSI or less air in the tank. I am thinking you have your switch set at 20/40 and is comes back on at 30 because you have 30 PSI air in the tank.

OK. I have to get out there (the well is in a pit way out behind the house) and power it down, drain it, and check the pressure in the tank. Today looks like a good day to do it, so ...

Thanks for the suggestion!
 

PumpMd

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What does your new pressure switch come preset at 20/40, 30/50, 40/60? I find old pressure switches that wont let you adjust them but I can't recall ever having a new pressure switch do that. I agree with valveman it would be very rare for that to happen on a new pressure switch.
 

Reach4

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Just replaced the pressure switch again (30-50 psi). I saw it cycling on and off pretty frequently so I went down there and watched it cycle from 30 to 40 again and again.
  1. How often is pretty frequently? Every 3o seconds or every 5 seconds.
  2. Does the cycling continue when you are not using water?
You could have more than one problem. One problem that should be addressed is that a pit can flood. New wells will all have the well casing stick out of the ground a foot or so, and will have what is called a pitless adapter to let the water stay below the frost line. I got my pit demolished and my casing extended. I was not be allowed to just extend the casing without demolishing the pit. Not cheap, but it is effective. If you are going to keep the pit for a while, consider putting in a sump pump that will keep the water lower than the casing. If you think your pit does not flood, at least put some kind of indicator in there. Maybe put an aspirin and/or a ball of toilet paper in a shallow dish in the bottom of the pit. If those get wet, you can see that it happened and motivate you to act further.
 

Zeugitai

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It's a brand-new 30/50. I know. I stood there watching it cycle between 30 and 40 psi and just couldn't get it though my head what would cause it. I tried twisting the range adjustment, and it did push the range up: 35 to 45! It always runs a ten psi range. There is no adjustment to broaden or to narrow that range, right? So ...

It was running the water softener, so it was filling and refilling the tank pretty frequently while I watched it. No, it does not cycle when we are not using water. It holds on 40 psi. The well, as far as I was told by the previous owner, is 180 feet deep. It is about eight feet down in a pit lined with concrete out behind the house. The bottom of the pit is always damp because it's covered, but it does not flood.

  1. How often is pretty frequently? Every 3o seconds or every 5 seconds.
  2. Does the cycling continue when you are not using water?
You could have more than one problem. One problem that should be addressed is that a pit can flood. New wells will all have the well casing stick out of the ground a foot or so, and will have what is called a pitless adapter to let the water stay below the frost line. I got my pit demolished and my casing extended. I was not be allowed to just extend the casing without demolishing the pit. Not cheap, but it is effective. If you are going to keep the pit for a while, consider putting in a sump pump that will keep the water lower than the casing. If you think your pit does not flood, at least put some kind of indicator in there. Maybe put an aspirin and/or a ball of toilet paper in a shallow dish in the bottom of the pit. If those get wet, you can see that it happened and motivate you to act further.
 

Zeugitai

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OK. Done. It was a total lack of pressure in the tank! I had always been shown by our local well guys to just check the pressure directly. Today, I powered it down and drained out the water to zero -- then checked and found about five pounds in there!! Raised it to 28 psi and now the well is behaving as it should. How it survived my ignorance is incredible. Thanks!
 

Zeugitai

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Since then, the well has done this twice: Pressure drops and the pressure switch does not cut in. Pressure bottoms out. (This is a brand new pressure switch.) Then, I walk out back, remove the cover, climb down into the pit, and manually/use the lever on the pressure switch to engage the contacts and hold the pump "on" until pressure climbs back up to range. Then, it works normally for a week or two, then this happens again.
 

Reach4

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Since then, the well has done this twice: Pressure drops and the pressure switch does not cut in. Pressure bottoms out. (This is a brand new pressure switch.) Then, I walk out back, remove the cover, climb down into the pit, and manually/use the lever on the pressure switch to engage the contacts and hold the pump "on" until pressure climbs back up to range. Then, it works normally for a week or two, then this happens again.
Try setting the air precharge to 27 PSI. The reasoning is that maybe the pump is not delivering water quickly enough for a reason other than the well running dry.

If this continues, consider a more sophisticated method for cutting off the pump if the well runs dry -- one that can reset on its own. I think that would not need to be located in the pit, but would be anywhere inline with the power feed to the pump. Those work by detecting the change in power draw when the pump runs dry, and shutting off the power for a period of time.
 

Zeugitai

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Try setting the air precharge to 27 PSI.

Thanks. Did you notice that I set it to 28psi with help from the forum and it was working normally? But since then it has bottomed out and not cut in to restore pressure on two occasions. My new pressure switch has a lever for manually engaging the pump, and I have used it to bring the pressure back up into range where it then works normally for a while -- a week or two.
 

Reach4

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Yep. 27 is 1 PSI less than 28. We have been presuming that you have a submersible pump (down the well). If you have a jet pump, say so.

I presume you now that your pump kicks on at 30 PSI and off at 50 PSI. How long does the pump run each time, minimum?

After your changes, your system worked most of the time, but then it doesn't on occasion. This could occur when there is a bigger demand than usual... perhaps your backwashing filter was backwashing while you turned on a faucet or something. So the pressure tank ran out of water before the pump delivered water. The pressure dropped to 20 PSI momentarily, and the switch kicked off. Letting out 1 PSI of air may totally cure this for you.

A better solution, if the dropping of the precharge a bit does not work, would be to use a basic pressure switch but to have a device that detects a pump running dry. It would then shut off power to the pump for a programmable interval. It works by monitoring the pump power wires, so it could be located anywhere in the path from the breaker to the pump system -- even next to the breaker panel.

Until you do a better solution, you might make a stick with a nail or cog on the side to operate the lever to lift the lever from up top. That will get old fast, but so will climbing into the pit every week or so.
 
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Zeugitai

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Yep. 27 is 1 PSI less than 28. We have been presuming that you have a submersible pump (down the well). If you have a jet pump, say so.

I presume you now that your pump kicks on at 30 PSI and off at 50 PSI. How long does the pump run each time, minimum?

After your changes, your system worked most of the time, but then it doesn't on occasion. This could occur when there is a bigger demand than usual... perhaps your backwashing filter was backwashing while you turned on a faucet or something. So the pressure tank ran out of water before the pump delivered water. The pressure dropped to 20 PSI momentarily, and the switch kicked off. Letting out 1 PSI of air may totally cure this for you.

A better solution, if the dropping of the precharge a bit does not work, would be to use a basic pressure switch but to have a device that detects a pump running dry. It would then shut off power to the pump for a programmable interval. It works by monitoring the pump power wires, so it could be located anywhere in the path from the breaker to the pump system -- even next to the breaker panel.

Until you do a better solution, you might make a stick with a nail or cog on the side to operate the lever to lift the lever from up top. That will get old fast, but so will climbing into the pit every week or so.

OK. I'd better get busy out there. The temperatures outside are still not too godawful for this time of year! I'll be back!
 

Zeugitai

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Yep. 27 is 1 PSI less than 28. We have been presuming that you have a submersible pump (down the well). If you have a jet pump, say so.

I presume you now that your pump kicks on at 30 PSI and off at 50 PSI. How long does the pump run each time, minimum?

After your changes, your system worked most of the time, but then it doesn't on occasion. This could occur when there is a bigger demand than usual... perhaps your backwashing filter was backwashing while you turned on a faucet or something. So the pressure tank ran out of water before the pump delivered water. The pressure dropped to 20 PSI momentarily, and the switch kicked off. Letting out 1 PSI of air may totally cure this for you.

A better solution, if the dropping of the precharge a bit does not work, would be to use a basic pressure switch but to have a device that detects a pump running dry. It would then shut off power to the pump for a programmable interval. It works by monitoring the pump power wires, so it could be located anywhere in the path from the breaker to the pump system -- even next to the breaker panel.

Until you do a better solution, you might make a stick with a nail or cog on the side to operate the lever to lift the lever from up top. That will get old fast, but so will climbing into the pit every week or so.

Went down there and found air pressure at 18 psi. Raised it to 27psi. I don't yet know if the system is losing air pressure or whether I adjusted it incorrectly last time. I'll go out and check it again in a couple days and if it's down again, I'll replace the pressure tank. I can't remember if I had faucets open when I adjusted the pressure a month ago, or not. This time, I made sure to have house faucets open. I'll check it Sunday or Monday and see if I've lost pressure. By the way, it is submersed and it took the pump about 24-25 seconds to bring it up to pressure after this operation.
 

Reach4

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A pressure tank should be selected to let the pump run a minimum of 1 minute each time it runs.
 

Zeugitai

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A pressure tank should be selected to let the pump run a minimum of 1 minute each time it runs.

So, half a minute to bring it up to pressure ... is not long enough? Wouldn't it be better if the pump runs a shorter length of time and less frequently? To get it to run longer, it would have to be a larger capacity than the 20 gal. we have now. 35 or 40 more like. If I have to replace it, I'll look at larger tanks. If I've understood you correctly?
 

Reach4

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The only way to get it to run shorter and less frequently both would be to use a lot less water.

Yes, the 40 or 44 gallon tank will have a bigger drawdown to allow less frequent starts.
 

Cacher_Chick

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If it is a bladder tank, it is leaking and needs to be replaced. A bladder tank should maintain the air pressure for many months without a notable drop.
 

Ballvalve

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The only way to get it to run shorter and less frequently both would be to use a lot less water.

Yes, the 40 or 44 gallon tank will have a bigger drawdown to allow less frequent starts.

You want it to run LONGER and less frequently. A 20 gallon tank is very small. You could crank up the cut out pressure and have a 30 to 80 switch - that would imitate a CSV valve. But the bladder tank should go YEARS with no pressure drop. Problem: I have 8 tire gauges at my shop and every damn one reads differently. Even the USA ones are variable. So I take 8 readings and then get the average and then write + or - PSI on each one. If you have a harbor fright gauge, better get 7 more and average them out.
 

Valveman

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You want it to run LONGER and less frequently. A 20 gallon tank is very small. You could crank up the cut out pressure and have a 30 to 80 switch - that would imitate a CSV valve. But the bladder tank should go YEARS with no pressure drop.

30/80 pressure switch setting cannot simulate a CSV if you have a pump that can build 120-150 PSI. And while the inlet pressure to a CSV can vary from say 50 to 150, the outlet pressure to the house will stay at a constant 50 PSI. And yes you could put a pressure reducing valve after the pressure tank set at 50 PSI, but running the pressure tank at 30/80 or 50/150 is not good for several reasons.



So, half a minute to bring it up to pressure ... is not long enough? Wouldn't it be better if the pump runs a shorter length of time and less frequently? To get it to run longer, it would have to be a larger capacity than the 20 gal. we have now. 35 or 40 more like. If I have to replace it, I'll look at larger tanks. If I've understood you correctly?

I hear this all the time. "I had the hose slowed way down because I didn't want to damage my pump." Or.... "I want my pump to build pressure and cut off quickly so I don't damage the pump." Just the opposite is true. Pumps like to run 24/7. Barely running the hose, which makes the pump cycle on and off is bad for the pump. The pump not running for AT LEAST 1 minute to fill the tank is bad for the pump. The larger the tank the more cycling on/off is reduced and the longer the pump runs to fill the tank. But you cannot put enough tanks on a system to do what a CSV does, which is to keep the pump running continuously as long as more than 1 GPM is being uses, which is the best thing for a pump.
 
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