Toilet won't stay unclogged

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This is my 1989 Kohler Wellworth. If your trapway looks like this, then you should probably just replace it with a new Kohler Cimarron. In my bathtub testing, this generation Wellworth did very poorly. That sharp bend is absolutely not ideal for a trapway. And on top of that, these have an UNGLAZED trapway. That means in has unnecessary resistance due to bare china.
 

Jodebg

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Looks as if I need to remove the toilet.

Have a few questions:

-Advise or video on how to Remove toilet.

-Advise on how to check or clean the waste drain-may have a blockage?

-Advice or video on how to install new toilet

-What type and brand of toilet bowl gasket to use..wax, etc.?

-Best brand and model toilet to buy?
 
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Just turn off the valve below the toilet, flush it, and use a big sponge or something to get as much water out as you can. Loosen the bolts holding it to the floor, and lift it up. I'd get a bunch of newspaper to put on the floor to prevent wax from getting everywhere. Take the old toilet to your local Restore or offer it up on Craigslist.

Go to Lowe's or HD and get a $150 Kohler Wellworth. It may or may not come with a wax ring, I'm not sure. Get some closet bolts in the toilet repair aisle. Again, it may come with some. Put the ring and the bolts on the flange. GENTLY press the new toilet on the wax ring and make sure the bolts are aligned with the holes on the bowl. Gently rock the toilet to seat the wax. Now just tighten the bolts down, DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN. Connect the supply line and you should be done. I've done it this way many times.
 

Jadnashua

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To check the toilet for an internal clog, take it outside, set it on something sturdy and pour water into the bowl then fill the tank and flush it. Water should rush out the bottom. If it doesn't, something's wrong in the toilet. At the toilet flange, pour water down the pipe (assuming you don't see standing water in the pipe), and it should accept as much water as you can pour, as fast as it can be poured.

Snaking a 3-4" drain line is best done by a professional, as using a smaller head you'd typically have access to won't clear and clean the pipe. Plus, done wrong, you can lose a finger or hand, or end up with some nasty injuries.
 

Reach4

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Advise on how to check or clean the waste drain-may have a blockage?
I suggest you try the following search in this forum: wax ring shims level

I suggest you try this search on Youtube: wax ring toilet

Experienced installers often add an extra nut above the toilet flange to keep the closet bolt upright during the lowering of the toilet. As a novice, I suggest that you consider an alternative such as Saniseal if the clearances are right. See this thread: https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/which-toilet-seal.61722/ I think that using wax rings with shims well takes some practice or some study and care. The resilient alternatives do not require that you get things right the first time.
 

WJcandee

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There is a thread by Terry's son that gives you the broad outlines. It's applicable to the Toto Drake, but the overall process is similar for most floor-mount toilets. It's a "sticky" thread at the top.

I agree with Reach4 that for first-timers, the Sani-Seal is more convenient than wax, but wax does work fine. Korky also makes a waxless seal, which also works well. Just follow the directions. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Korky-WaxFREE-Seal-Kit-6000BM/205616926

I think you should give the Toto Entrada a serious look as well. Google it. It is often available from virtually any local plumbing supply place (even if they don't stock Toto, they can get it from their supplier), and is usually available at close to the online price if you call around to several places with the model number and color you want. And then you get the benefit of doing business with a neighbor. Warning: call several plumbing supply places, because some are rude and expensive, while others are super-nice and reasonably-priced. This is true in almost every community for some reason. The Entrada model number is CST244EF for the elongated version (243 for the round, which you don't want). Cotton White is color #01.

HD will/can order Toto products, but some of their prices are idiotic. Don't know why.
 

Jadnashua

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What is the life expectancy of Sani Seal? Does it hold up as long as a wax gasket?
It hasn't been around all that long, so I'm not sure there is a good answer to that question, but the material is pretty robust.
 

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Well, I finally removed the toilet. What I noticed is that the small hole in the
lower/front of the toilet bowl is clogged with what looks to be a calcium deposit?

It chips out and is very gritty.

Can this be what was causing the slow flushing and repeated clogging?

Best to replace this toilet?
 

Gary Swart

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Kohler toilets had a problem with these older models. That sharp bend you found caused clogs. I believe their later models improved this.
 

WJcandee

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Can this be what was causing the slow flushing and repeated clogging?

Yep. That's what starts the siphon that sucks the material out of the bowl. The problem is that all the crusty stuff may well have formed in the pathways of the bowl leading to that hole, so just clearing the hole may not do it. But it might: I cleaned the siphon jet and the area directly above it, to the extent I could get that higher area, of all the crusty stuff and the 1950s-era toilet I was working on was pretty much good to go. It's far from perfect, but it works well enough for the little use this one gets.
 

Jadnashua

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If it is mineral deposits, they can all be removed with some acid. Now, not everyone will want to do it, but done properly, it's safe - READ the instructions carefully, and use the proper safety equipment. Take a little bit of it and stick it in a glass, cover it with vinegar and leave it overnight. If it is gone in the morning, acid will clean it out of your toilet. If you want to wait long enough, you could just buy a couple of gallons of vinegar rather than going with stronger stuff which can clean it out in minutes rather than hours.
 

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Well, I finally removed the toilet. What I noticed is that the small hole in the
lower/front of the toilet bowl is clogged with what looks to be a calcium deposit?

It chips out and is very gritty.

Can this be what was causing the slow flushing and repeated clogging?

Best to replace this toilet?
With the toilet reinstalled, pour 1/2 gallon of muriatic acid through a funnel into the flush valve overflow tube in the tank. Pour the remaining half gallon into the bowl. Ventilate and leave the area for 30 to 60 minutes. Brush the bowl thoroughly, giving special attention to recessed area in the bottom of the bowl with the siphon jet, and under the rim. The acid will dissolve the mineral deposits, greatly improve flush performance, and make your toilet bowl sparkle.

Muriatic acid is available at Lowe's, The Home Depot and probably any hardware store. Buy the "green" alternative. It does not have the horribly caustic fumes of the regular type. Either can burn your eyes and skin if it makes contact. Needless to say, wear protection.

If it's in your budget to buy a new toilet, go for it. A new toilet would be more eco-friendly, but it seems that yours is salvageable. Your call. Good luck!!!
 

Jodebg

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Poured some vinegar in the bowl last night and the deposit that were visible on the bottom of the bowl is gone!

How do I know that the vinegar is actually down inside of the small siphon tube that was blocked?

I filled the bowl to the normal water level with straight vinegar. Will the vinegar flow into the siphon tube on its own?

*Also, I noticed that another of our original 1987 Kohler toilets seems to have a low water level after flushing.
Is there an adjustment for this?

*I am also replacing the old toilet flange. Thinking of using a PVC instead of the steel that was used originally. PVC a good idea?

The original flange was placed on the plywood floor. The tile was installed and the flange sits below the level of the finished tile floor.

The plumber used an over sized wax ring when this toilet was installed in 1987.

Should I use the over sized wax ring again, or is there a way to build the flange up to tile level?
 

Reach4

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*Also, I noticed that another of our original 1987 Kohler toilets seems to have a low water level after flushing.
Is there an adjustment for this?
Slowly pour maybe an extra quart of water into the bowl. If the water rises and stays higher compared to before you started pouring, yes. Check that the little bowl refill hose is pointing into the overflow tube. If it is, replace the fill valve with one with an adjustable refill.

If the water falls to the same level that it was before the pour, you cannot cure that with more refill water. If the toilet is tilted back much, you could use shims to tilt this back to level. But you would have to replace the wax in that case, since lifting the back of the toilet would separate the existing wax. If toilet is level and the water falls back, no.

*I am also replacing the old toilet flange. Thinking of using a PVC instead of the steel that was used originally. PVC a good idea?
You do not want a flange with a PVC ring. A flange with a metal ring is good. A flange with a stainless steel ring is best .

The original flange was placed on the plywood floor. The tile was installed and the flange sits below the level of the finished tile floor.

Should I use the over sized wax ring again, or is there a way to build the flange up to tile level?
What you do could vary according to how far recessed the flange is. For example, Saniseal says you can use a single Saniseal for a flange whose top is as much as 3/8 inch below the floor.
 

WJcandee

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I filled the bowl to the normal water level with straight vinegar. Will the vinegar flow into the siphon tube on its own?

Yes, up to the level of the water in the bowl. Anything above that (and there is a lot) you are going to have to get to by pouring it into the overflow riser (the vertical tube coming up from the flapper in the tank).

Also, I noticed that another of our original 1987 Kohler toilets seems to have a low water level after flushing.
Is there an adjustment for this?

Do you mean in the tank or in the bowl? Reach does an excellent job above of describing what to do if the bowl water level is too low. If the tank water level is too low, you can adjust the fill valve in most cases. How you do that depends upon whiich manufacturer you have and what model. Shoot us a picture.

Thinking of using a PVC instead of the steel that was used originally. PVC a good idea?

Ick. No. Bad. And changing out the flange is no small job. Not challenging for a good plumber, but not the easiest DIY job.

And do NOT try to use one of those "Just shove it inside the old one" flanges. Trust us. Important lesson" just because someone makes a plumbing fitting doesn't mean that it's legal to use or that it works well or is a good idea to use.

The original flange was placed on the plywood floor. The tile was installed and the flange sits below the level of the finished tile floor.

That's a trade-coordination issue that we see all the time in new construction. Plumber wants to set the flange before tile guy is done. So the flange gets mounted on the subfloor and tile is done around it, and the location of the top of the flange is at the mercy of the thickness of the flooring, rather than having the bottom of the flange be mounted on the finished dloor.

That often doesn't put the TOP of the flange below the level of the finished floor, but if it does, then two wax rings or an extra-thick one, or one or more Sani-seals, depending on the distance and the toilet (they are easy to stack); or probably just one Korky Waxless seal.

is there a way to build the flange up to tile level?

There are a variety of contraptions that purport to raise the top of the flange. BAD. You are much more likely to have a leak from the stuff that tries to raise the flange, even if you silicone the crap out of it, than you are from a thicker wax ring (or the alternatives I mentioned).

There is a reason that the plumber just used a thick wax ring to install your toilet: because that's the tried-and-true method that works perfectly.
 

Jodebg

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Quick update on the toilets. I still have the problem toilet soaking in vinegar which
is doing a great job loosening the mineral deposits.

While the toilet is out of the room we decided to do a long standing ceiling repair and repaint.
Hoping to reinstall this toilet soon and find out how it works after the clean out of the
mineral deposits.

We followed your instructions of pouring water down the drain pipe, and it took as much as
we could pour into it.

Regarding the drain flange. I reused the original SS flange. I cut a ring of plywood to use as a
spacer under the flange. In the original install the plumber placed the flange on the drain pipe
which left the flange ring floating 1/2" above the floor. The flange is now screwed through the wood spacer and
into the plywood floor, and is much more stable.

I also installed the toilet mounting bolts to the flange using nuts to hold them in place. There is plenty of
room for the nuts in the ample recess under the toilet. Any problem using nuts on the bolts to hole them in place?

In the mean time we took the tank off of another toilet and brought it out for a good cleaning.
Lots of rust build up in the tank after 28 years here in the country.

When I reinstalled the tank to the supply line, the connection leaked until I tightened
the nut with a pair of pliers.
How tight should this supply line nut be?

The original supply lines were all made with solid tubing.
Is there any advantage to removing the solid supply tube and replacing them with new flexible supply lines?

Is there anything we can put into the tanks to avoid the rust build up?

Thanks again for all the great and helpful information!
 

Reach4

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Quick update on the toilets. I still have the problem toilet soaking in vinegar which
is doing a great job loosening the mineral deposits.
By now, you have quite an investment in this toilet. If you did not start out with an attachment, you probably have one now.
Is there anything we can put into the tanks to avoid the rust build up?
I suggest that you consider treating your water. Is this well water? In that case, I would get a water test that tests for iron, pH, manganese, hardness, and more.

If it is not well water, the rust is presumably from your pipes. Super Iron Out can be used to treat your tank. You don't want to put strong chemicals into your tank because it is hard on the flush valve.
 
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