Trying to "get it right!

[rpfutrell]

We bought a house a little over a year ago , and I am looking to replace the Central Air, Boiler and Hot Water tank. I have a detailed post here for the boiler that shares some additonal design info.

Using that threads additional information and the potential systems below... I'm trying to decide on an Indirect Hot Water system. What are the pro's / con's if any? The price tag on replacing the boiler and AC systems is quite pricey, so I'm trying to "get it right" all of it. Trying not to oversize, undersize or skimp too much either. I have 3 contractors I'd feeling comfortable with, but making sure I get the system I want and need. So I don't want to overlook the Hot Water system either. How does the Hot Water systems performance play into the boiler, if at all??

Can you mix/match all system that are listed?? For example can I use a SuperStor with an Alpine Boiler, or are there design / compatibility concerns??

I'm starting to narrow the boiler down to a few choices, will it benefit me to split more hairs over which Indirect Hot Water tank is going to be better / best or better value? What things should I stay away from, are Stainless Steel tanks better than Stone or glass ones vice versa?

Does getting hot water faster have any weighting on the boiler itself? I think this may have been a misconception of mine in the beginning, or is it's performance independent from that of the boilers.

How about the capacity, what is overkill and with two upcoming teenagers, will I one of us get the cold shower?

So much info to digest on replacing these boiler and AC systems, I don't want to overlook anything with the Indirect Hot Water system. I greatly appreciate your feedback on helping me make this investment decision. Please let me know if I am leaving any info out that would be helpful.

Home Info:
Built: 1997
Type: 2 Story Colonial w/ basement
Baths: 3.5 (only one bath has tub, rest are showers)
Sqft: 3300 / 2888 heated
Current System: Natural Gas Boiler & Standby Hot Water Heater. Boiler is 3 zones, plus a gas fireplace in our Family room.
Family Size: 4 total, 2 adults 2 younger children under 5

 

[Jadnashua]

FOr the most part, you can use anyone's indirect with anyone else's boiler. You may need to buy the temperature sensor from the boiler manufacturer to ensure it is sensing the right temperature, but many of them are common - you just need to verify the specs on the thing matches what the boiler wants.

For the most part, unless you are in a commercial situation and using hot water constantly throughout the day, you do NOT need to upsize the boiler to attach an indirect. What you do is typically, treat it as a priority zone, which means that the house heating is disabled while the boiler is reheating the indirect. For most people, they never notice since, a typical boiler has a much larger burner than a typical self-contained WH, and it reheats pretty quickly. Personally, even with filling a big air tub in the middle of a cold winter day, I have never noticed my house cooling off because all of the heat was directed at reheating the tank - it's setup as the priority zone. On my boiler, even though 'normal' operations may only have the water temp at 130-degrees for heating the house, when it gets a call for the priority zone, it heats the water to max so that it can reheat the indirect faster (in my case, that's about 195-degrees). Most people run their indirect at around 140-degrees, and code often requires a tempering valve on the outlet.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[rpfutrell]

Ok, so So what might be the pros/cons of the Tankless vs. Indirect models?

What is preferable a stainless steel tank or stone?? I'm leaning towards stainless steel.

 

[Jadnashua]

Basically, IMHO, if you already have a boiler, why buy another one in a tankless? The ground water supply temperature can vary radically, summer to winter, and that can cut a tankless system's ability to provide a decent temperature rise or flow rate while using a much bigger burner than your boiler, which is often more efficient. A good indirect's specs can approach less than a degree loss over 24-hours, so standby losses are in the ballpark of a tankless system, and, the bigger point in my mind, you can get any flow rate out of the indirect you want up to the capacity of the plumbing and keep the temp the same. If the indirect is sized properly, you can probably take an endless shower with one as well, but it would fill a big tub better and if someone turns on something else needing hot water, the tankless system may not keep up, but you've got a tank of already hot water with the indirect and you'd never notice.

I recently wrote an article in the Tutorial section...you can read some of my thoughts there. Many of the indirects out there have a lifetime warranty...they're pretty simple devices, and SS is probably better long-term than some of the other materials used in them. SuperSTor was bought, and the design changed for the better...some of theirs had issues, replaced under warranty, but it did not cover labor, so it still wasn't free. Finding someone to deal with an indirect is pretty simple...finding a qualified service person for a tankless system is pot luck, and, like many things with more than a few parts, finding the repair part(s) you do need for one may be time consuming, and expensive. Nearly anyone can replace an indirect, should it be needed, fixing or replacing a tankless is more of a specialist function...Good luck finding someone on a Sunday when you wake up to no hot water!