Water pump replacement

[JB2]

A few days ago my pump quit after 17 years. It is a Wayne 1/2 HP 230v Deep well pump. Where I live, the wells are not good, so many residents including myself, have man made ponds to supply our water. My pond is 100' x 100' x 12' deep (usually 6' of water in it) and is of shale. The pond was dug by the previous homeowner who also installed the pump at the BOTTOM of the pond (with no way to service it without pumping the water out); I am in the process of doing it now.
The pump is 330' from the house and the incline up to the house is about 12 degrees. From the bottom of the basement floor to the bottom of the pond (where the pump is, is around 11').
I do not want to install a new pump the way the old one is installed due to the fact of having to drain the pond for any future servicing. The proper way would be to trench out to the side and install well casing with an extension into the middle of the pond. It would be costly with having to hire an excavator, etc.
I thought of possibly installing a shallow well pump in the basement and "pull" the water from the pond to the pressure / holding tank. I have looked on a few forums and have found a few things such as FRICTION LOSS, CAVITATION and LOW PRESSURE. I have 1 1/4" black polypropylene hose from the pump to the house, and the pressure switch is set between 44psi and 63psi (gauge reads 55 when pump shuts off). The GPM is 12.49 at the outside hose bib.
With the information supplied; 330' hose length, difference in height of 11' from the basement floor (where the pump would be installed) to the bottom of the pond (where the foot valve will be) over the 330', and a 12 degree rise from the pond to the house. Would I be able to use a shallow well pump for this application? If so, would a higher HP (say 1 1/2 - 2) pump supply the pressure and GPM that I currently have?
I appreciate any and all information, as I currently am without water, and need to decide on the most practical solution within the next few days.

 

[Reach4]

What is the freezing situation?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

That is a long way to suck water with a jet pump. You will not be happy with the priming problems and the lower water supply. I wouldn't even try to pull out the old pump. I would just slide a piece of well casing in the pond at a 45 degree angle. It needs a screen or perforated piece at the bottom with a cap on it. Then you can just slide a new pump down the casing without having to drain the pond.

 

[JB2]

What is the freezing situation?

I am in the North East (north of Albany, NY). The frost line is 48".

 

[JB2]

That is a long way to suck water with a jet pump. You will not be happy with the priming problems and the lower water supply. I wouldn't even try to pull out the old pump. I would just slide a piece of well casing in the pond at a 45 degree angle. It needs a screen or perforated piece at the bottom with a cap on it. Then you can just slide a new pump down the casing without having to drain the pond.

That's what I'm starting to find out; the distance could be a problem. I am in the North East NY area where freezing is a problem; that's why the best way would be to trench out to the side and install well casing with an extension in toward the center. That way, I can install a pitless adapter below the frost line and install the pump as if it were in a drilled well casing. Cost is a factor though and I am trying to figure out a easier way. Of course I could install a replacement pump exactly as the old one was installed and hope it lasts another 17 years or so, but with the quality of things nowadays I have my doubts.

 

[JB2]

After much research on shallow well pumps, I've decided to have 36" tile installed at one corner of the pond with a cement cap and well casing so I can install a new deep well pump. The original pump at the bottom of the pond is a three wire with the control box in the basement. I would like to stay with a control box vs. a 2 wire pump for easier serviceability. My question is this; the replacement 3 wire pump has 4 wires (green ground). The original pump has 3 wires with no ground. Can I install the new pump the same way as the old pump is wired (omitting the green ground)? Any and all information is greatly appreciated, and I thank all in advance.

 

[Reach4]

My question is this; the replacement 3 wire pump has 4 wires (green ground). The original pump has 3 wires with no ground. Can I install the new pump the same way as the old pump is wired (omitting the green ground)? Any and all information is greatly appreciated, and I thank all in advance.

Yes.

With your low lift, a 1/2 HP 10 GPM pump would probably be a good choice. Use a 44 gallon or more pressure tank.

I suggest you try "flow inducer" as a search term in this forum.

 

[JB2]

Thank you for the reply.

I will be going with a Wayne T50S10-2, 1/2HP 230V 3 wire deep well pump. I have a 120 gallon tank with a large bladder tank in the basement.

I suppose since the well casing will only be about 10' down, I could use a 2 wire pump since it would be super easy to remove if the capacitor / relays went bad. What are your thoughts on the controls being inside the pump vs. externally mounted in the basement in terms of reliability?

 

[Reach4]

That pump seems to be about the right size at 619 GPH @20 ft. https://www.waynepumps.com/product-selector/well-pumps-deep-well-submersible/t50s10-2

A conventional 2-wire Franklin motor does not have a capacitor. Instead it has a separate higher resistance winding inside to provide the phase shift. It also has a timing switch called a BIAC that turns on and off the start winding. It seems to be reliable.

I tend to prefer the 2-wire of that technology because it does not have the start capacitor to go bad, and it has lower starting torque. The slightly higher power consumption is inconsequential. Maybe I should be preferring a 3-wire pump. I am fairly confident that this is not a critical decision. There are indeed pump motors (including CentriPro, Pentek, Grundfos) that have capacitors and electronics in the pump. I don't know what the Wayne pumps use.

I am not a pro. I have one well, and will have a well company change the pump if the current 2-wire pump goes bad.

 

[Gary Slusser]

For 2X0v AC... 2 wire pumps have 3 wires; 2 hot and a ground. 3 wire have 4 wires; two hot, 1 start and a ground (and a control box above ground)..

2 wire pumps have many fewer parts to go bad, and the cable costs and weighs less. A 3 wire system with a problem usually has something wrong in the control box, so on average there's no need to pull the pump.

Poly pipe allows you to pull a pump out of a pond/well unless the pump is attached to something that prevents the pump from moving.... Which is why I suspect folks there are having to drain their ponds to get to their pumps.

I hope you are disinfecting your pond water before you use it.