High Chloride/Sodium/TDS Levels?

[John24]

I recently purchased a house serviced by a well, the previous owner had passed away so I couldn't get much info on the equipment that's in place. I'm new to this so I'm trying to learn as I go. I'll post the results from two separate water tests, any recommendations to correct these issues would be appreciated.

The water had tested positive for coliform and a UV system was installed to correct it.

There is a water softener but it is currently in "bypass". There is also a reverse osmosis system hooked up to the water line that feeds the ice maker on the fridge.

I did notice corrosion on appliances as well as the shut off valves through out the house, granted the plumbing is 90 years old.

Here's the results as well as the recommended limits:
Hardness: 11 --- 0-4.00 gpg
Ph: 6.32 --- 7.0-8.5
Alkalinity: 2.82 --- 14.620 gpg
Chlorides: 33 --- 14.620 gpg
TDS: 1043 --- 500 ppm
Iron: 0.06 --- .300
Turbidity: 0.63 --- ntu
Sulfates: 1.37 --- 14.620 gpg
Iron Algeas : none

and the other test (different units of measurement)

Coliform >1/100 ml --- <1/100 ml
Iron <.03 --- .3
Manganese <.01 --- .05
Lead <.001 --- .005
pH 6.52 --- 6.5 – 8.5
Nitrate 7.7 --- 10
Hardness 239.6 --- 250
Sodium 100.63 --- 50
Arsenic <.001 --- .005


As you can see, the chloride level as well as the TDS levels are very high in the first test and the sodium levels are high in the second. I've read the high chloride levels could be related to the sodium levels and that can also make the TDS number high?

What can I do to correct this in a cost effective manner? Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

Your water pH is a bit low (acidic). There is a treatment available for that.

You should get the softener working again. You should post information on what you have if you want help with that.

Is this a shallow well, or what? Usually you would try sanitizing your well and plumbing rather than going right to a UV unit. The nitrates would tend to imply this is from surface water or there is leakage from the surface into the well.

A working RO unit can remove sodium chloride. It should be fed by soft water.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[John24]

Your water pH is a bit low (acidic). There is a treatment available for that.

You should get the softener working again. You should post information on what you have if you want help with that.

Is this a shallow well, or what? Usually you would try sanitizing your well and plumbing rather than going right to a UV unit. The nitrates would tend to imply this is from surface water or there is leakage from the surface into the well.

A working RO unit can remove sodium chloride. It should be fed by soft water.

Thanks for the reply. I'm not really sure on the details of the well and I can't seem to find a well head. The yard is very overgrown, I'll keep searching. I'd like to get the softener back in order but I didn't know if that would make the sodium levels worse? The RO unit is good for drinking water but I was concerned the high sodium would kill my appliances. Could surface water cause the high sodium as well?

 

[Reach4]

Thanks for the reply. I'm not really sure on the details of the well and I can't seem to find a well head. The yard is very overgrown, I'll keep searching. I'd like to get the softener back in order but I didn't know if that would make the sodium levels worse? The RO unit is good for drinking water but I was concerned the high sodium would kill my appliances. Could surface water cause the high sodium as well?

Not really unless there was a surface source of salt. Are you near an ocean coastline?

The fact that you don't have a casing sticking out of the ground would tend to suggest a potential source of contamination. You might talk to a neighbor or two. He might know about the well and if salt in the well water was common there.

 

[John24]

Thanks, I have a Microline TFC-3 RO system and an Ionics IQ system, both installed in 2000 per the paperwork I found in the house. The RO is weeping some water and the drain on it is constantly peeing into the shop sink. I was debating replacing the whole RO for a new one rather fixing leaks and replacing filters. I'd really like to reduce the TDS throughout the whole house because I don't want it to affect my appliances. I've never used a water softener before so I will probably just call the original installer and see if they can get if back online for me.

 

[Reach4]

The RO is weeping some water and the drain on it is constantly peeing into the shop sink. I was debating replacing the whole RO for a new one rather fixing leaks and replacing filters. I'd really like to reduce the TDS throughout the whole house because I don't want it to affect my appliances. I've never used a water softener before so I will probably just call the original installer and see if they can get if back online for me.

It is normal to have an RO system drain out water. Typical is about 4x the filtered water use give or take. The exception is the systems that pump that extra water into the hot water system to be used for non-drinking use. There are RO systems better than others, and I have not looked into your system. There are RO sytems that can do the whole house, but I expect that is overkill. However it it is important to you, then go for it. It's money better spent than on some other drinking activities.

Calling the original dealer should work fine. I would hope that you could get all new resin and a cleaning of the softener for what -- $300, 400? Since I don't do such things, I might be too optimistic. I often am. I have done projects that I think in retrospect would have been well worth it to have have had done professionally. The RO unit -- I am not going to take a guess. But if the quote is $1000, you might want to think for a bit -- not to say that good water is not worth many thousands. But you don't want to spend thousands when normal maintenance would have been much less.. But it might just take cleaning, replacing some filter elements in the RO, and some education to get things going nicely. If they say you need new softener resin, after 15 years, that should be expected.

 

[John24]

The house is 90 years old, from what I've read it used to be common practice to bury the well head. Would it be worth it to find the well and extend the casing above grade? Could that lower the TDS and other out of range numbers? To answer a previous question no I'm not near a coastline (I'm in the suburbs of Philadelphia) , I did find a pile of sand under a tarp up hill from where I suspect the well is and there is multiple bags of rock salt far down hill from the well area. I also called the water softener installer and they are out of business so I called a different plumber they came out and looked at the equipment but were unfamiliar with it, they just seem to want to install public water, I think I'd prefer to fix the well water if it makes financial sense. Thanks again for the advise.

 

[Reach4]

The house is 90 years old, from what I've read it used to be common practice to bury the well head. Would it be worth it to find the well and extend the casing above grade? Could that lower the TDS and other out of range numbers?

Yes, in order to protect your well from leaks and contamination. It will require the installation of a pitless adapter to keep the water below the frost line. This will also make it easier to replace the pump in the future if it fails.

Could that lower the TDS and other out of range numbers?

No, it will not help that.

I suggest you post a photo or two showing the softener controller and tanks. For upload, keep the photos 800 pixels max and 200 kB. You can host the file on a different site, and in that case the limits will not apply.

 

[John24]

Thanks I'll try to get some pictures up this evening. What causes the high TDS? I had thought it might be from contamination if the underground well head is leaking or something and allowing runoff into the well.

 

[Reach4]

Thanks I'll try to get some pictures up this evening. What causes the high TDS? I had thought it might be from contamination if the underground well head is leaking or something and allowing runoff into the well.

That would be more indicated by nitrates and E.coli.

The hardness contributes. As does the sodium, which is the one you are most looking at. Those all contribute to the total dissolved solids.

 

[John24]

Oh ok, could the high sodium be from contamination or is that likely to stay the same even after extending the casing?

 

[John24]

Here's some pictures of the set up. There's what looks like 2 softeners the new UV filter the pressure tank and salt container. I also took a picture of the water and electrical in from the well. Hope these help. Also I was reading the instalation manual for the UV filter and that said there should be a 5 micron filter installed before the UV filter, I think I'll add one as it can't hurt and they are fairly inexpensive.

 

[Gary Slusser]

The last picture... the SS tank is a softener, maybe Hydroponics brand and I'm sure they are out of business. It has a Fleck 2500 valve that is proprietary to Hydroponics (no stock parts from anyone). The tan tank behind the softener is an acid neutralizer filter with a Fleck 5600 filter version control valve (stock parts from many sources). The UV light is branded Master Water out of IIRC Reading PA (they don't make UVs. They are an old co. and sell through plumbing and well supply houses.

Your AN filter needs more neutralizing mineral. It is added by removing the plug in the dome shaped part of the tank in front of the control valve. Of course you shut off the water or by pass the unit and relieve the pressure before loosing/removing the plug. Master can tell you mot everything you need to know and who to contact to get it done for you. That bypass valve doesn't look like it is fully closed.

Your sodium may be from road salting. Added sodium from an ion exchange water softener (actually the only type of residential etc.softening used today) is 7.85 mg/l per GPG (grain per gallon) of compensated hardness removed from the raw water. BTY, your nitrates are higher than I would want and I suggest a correctly sized RO with a faucet at the kitchen sink. Nitrite should be tested for too. You want to make sure that the UV is a Class A with a high enough SFR (service flow rating GPM) and not a Class B. And to clean the quartz sleeve every 6 months and the lamp every 12 months. The AN filter is usually serviced every 12-18 months. You know when the pH falls below 7.0. With your eqipment working, none or a 20 mic prefilter cartridge before the UV (which has to be last inline of all the equipment) would be sufficient.

 

[John24]

The last picture... the SS tank is a softener, maybe Hydroponics brand and I'm sure they are out of business. It has a Fleck 2500 valve that is proprietary to Hydroponics (no stock parts from anyone). The tan tank behind the softener is an acid neutralizer filter with a Fleck 5600 filter version control valve (stock parts from many sources). The UV light is branded Master Water out of IIRC Reading PA (they don't make UVs. They are an old co. and sell through plumbing and well supply houses.

Your AN filter needs more neutralizing mineral. It is added by removing the plug in the dome shaped part of the tank in front of the control valve. Of course you shut off the water or by pass the unit and relieve the pressure before loosing/removing the plug. Master can tell you mot everything you need to know and who to contact to get it done for you. That bypass valve doesn't look like it is fully closed.

Your sodium may be from road salting. Added sodium from an ion exchange water softener (actually the only type of residential etc.softening used today) is 7.85 mg/l per GPG (grain per gallon) of compensated hardness removed from the raw water. BTY, your nitrates are higher than I would want and I suggest a correctly sized RO with a faucet at the kitchen sink. Nitrite should be tested for too. You want to make sure that the UV is a Class A with a high enough SFR (service flow rating GPM) and not a Class B. And to clean the quartz sleeve every 6 months and the lamp every 12 months. The AN filter is usually serviced every 12-18 months. You know when the pH falls below 7.0. With your eqipment working, none or a 20 mic prefilter cartridge before the UV (which has to be last inline of all the equipment) would be sufficient.

Wow, thanks for all the info. That really helps! I read up a little on the AN and adding more media seems pretty straight forward, I'm more confused with setting the timer up top. I'd also like to get the water softener back up and running, I watched a video on cleaning it out I just don't want to screw it up and make the water unsafe.... Regarding the RO... it's not pictured but I do have a Microline TFC-3 hooked up to the fridge water lines. I did a water test at the fridge this weekend and the Nitrates were below 2, per the First Alert test strips. I would like to replace the filters because I don't know when the PO last changed them, it looks like quite the process to flush them and get them usable once you swap in new ones. Thanks again for the info, I'll see if I can have someone come out and check out the equipment, I just have a feeling anyone who comes out will just push to install all new equipment and that's definitely not in the budget.

 

[John24]

the well cap has been located, however it has a chunk missing from it and seems to be in a lower lying area where water may puddle. Any recommendations? Would a new waterproof cap suffice or should it be raised? I plan on trying to redirect some runoff away from it.

 

[Reach4]

You should get your casing extended a foot or more above ground. Well seals, even those without chunks missing, often leak.

 

[Craigpump]

Get the casing extended and see if you can find a local well guy with a Downhole camera and do a camera inspection. It's very possible the casing has a bad spot in it, there is intrusion at the drive shoe, the pitless hole is too big or the the rubbers on the pitless were put on before the casing cooled after cutting the pitless hole with a torch.

 

[John24]

I'll shop around and see if I can get that case extended and seal replaced. What should I expect to spend roughly? Also there was a pile of sand uphill from the cracked well seal, could that have caused the high TDS? I think the PO had it left over from when he put a pool in... I relocated to the other side of the property, it was about 5 wheelbarrows worth.

 

[John24]

Found this regarding sand/salt piles http://www.maine.gov/dep/water/wd/sandsalt/homeowner.htm

Should I leave water run to try to flush the system or is there anything else recommended?

 

[Reach4]

What is the outside diameter of that well seal? That will affect the cure. It will lead to decisions. A non-obvious thing is that with my 4 inch (3.75 actually) pump in my 4 inch steel casing, it would have been nice to have well sanitizing pellets dropped to the bottom of the well before putting the pump back. That would have meant bringing the whole sanitizing thing forward. Sanitizing can take 24 hours or more. So I think that is a good DIY thing for those so inclined. My well is doing nicely, but on my next sanitizing, I will take special steps to get the chlorine below the pump. I plan to do that by using a larger than normal "flooding volume".

How deep do you think the well is? That will affect what it would cost to lift the pump out of the way.

Tell us about the pipe going through the basement wall to the well-- diameter, material? How far is that basement wall from the well? I wonder if you might want to get that pipe replaced. That would cost more. But polyethylene pipe is better than steel. Steel pipe of 1-1/4 or bigger ID can have poly pipe inserted through the existing steel pipe.

You might be able to get rid of that UV sterilizer with your upgraded non-leaking well.

Ask your well person what cleaning they offer. If they have the big compressor that can blow years of stuff out like a geyser, I would consider that. That alone would be a significant adder to cost.

Edit:

The pitless is a gadget that passes water through the casing while keeping the water below the frost line. It is possible that the pitless is OK as is. It is possible that it is not. It is possible that they won't even have to pull the pump, but I think pulling the pump is probable. But what confuses me is the wires. It is normal to have the wires come over the top of the casing, because they are not subject to freezing. If you have a pass-through for the wires in the side of the casing, the well service should probably should seal that penetration. How far down is that? Can't tell a this point. I don't know what to expect.