Smoke detecters

Users who are viewing this thread

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,602
Reaction score
1,038
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
If the individual meters will be turned of when unoccupied, then they MUST be on the building meter so they are ALWAYS active as long as ANY unit is occupied.
 

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
If we are talking residential units then each unit will be independent of each other as well as any smoke alarms.

If the smoke detectors are part of a system that calls the fire department then they will be a low voltage system and will include all units and be installed by a fire alarm company.
 

Cwhyu2

Consultant
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Cincinnati OH
If we are talking residential units then each unit will be independent of each other as well as any smoke alarms.

If the smoke detectors are part of a system that calls the fire department then they will be a low voltage system and will include all units and be installed by a fire alarm company.
Thanks JW they will be hard wired and not part of a security company they are only smokes and co2 and must on a lighting circuit on the house panel I think.
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,602
Reaction score
1,038
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
Most modern detectors are NOT "independent of each other" but are interconnected. IF a unit is unoccupied and the meter is off, a fire in that unit will NOT be detected by the other ones until it is a conflagration, because of firewall isolation. The detectors MUST ALL BE INTERCONNECTED and active a ALL TIMES if the building has ANY occupancy. They are on a separate circuit, NOT a lighting circuit. And, since this is a multioccupancy unit the breaker in the building panel MUST be "locked" so it cannot be accidentally turned off.
 

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
In any dwelling unit there can be only one service, feeder, or branch circuit. If each unit is served by a meter then the smoke alarms in that unit will be supplied from that service. We are not allowed to install a panel from a meter and then supply smoke alarms from another panel.
If this building has a sprinkler system then the IFC will require a fire alarm system be installed. The fire panel will be located somewhere on the property and supplied by the house service and the detectors, alarms, and strobes will be low voltage and supplied from this fire panel.
Smoke alarms must be supplied from the panel in each unit, detectors can be supplied from a fire alarm panel but the detector will be low voltage. Notice the difference between the words used in this post, “alarms” and “detectors”
In our homes we have smoke alarms which emits a sound when they detect smoke, detectors communicate with a central panel.
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,602
Reaction score
1,038
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
If I understand what you wrote, you are saying that if there were say 12 apartments in a building and the only occupied one was on the fourth floor, THAT would be the only smoke alarm that had to be "active" even if fire broke out on the lower level and burned through the intervening floors before the smoke detector/alarm went off. Good luck saving those occupants.
 

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
If I understand what you wrote, you are saying that if there were say 12 apartments in a building and the only occupied one was on the fourth floor, THAT would be the only smoke alarm that had to be "active" even if fire broke out on the lower level and burned through the intervening floors before the smoke detector/alarm went off. Good luck saving those occupants.

If the 12 units had alarms such as we have in our homes and no other system this is correct.

The IBC will mandate that a building with 12 units have fire protection therefore a central fire system will be required. This required fire system can be installed along with smoke alarms or without smoke alarms. This central system will also notify the fire department in case of a fire something the smoke alarms cannot do.
 

Cwhyu2

Consultant
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Cincinnati OH
Okay to clarify the building I am working on is 3 units, one being an efficiency the other two are one bedroom units all on separate meters plus house meter all are sub panels and the main panel combo meter box serves as the main panel with 4 100 amp breaker for each panel it requires that the smoke alarms be on the house panel and all smoke alarms through the whole building.
They will not be attached to a security or fire notification system.
 

Cwhyu2

Consultant
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Cincinnati OH
And they are on a dedicated circuit from the house panel and all interconnected to all 4 floors the building is 150 years old.
I will post some pictures of some of the work later.
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,602
Reaction score
1,038
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
That would be the only way to protect the occupants of the fourth floor if there were a fire on the lower levels, but I would assume a usage such as that would also require a fire suppression system.
 

Cwhyu2

Consultant
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Cincinnati OH
That would be the only way to protect the occupants of the fourth floor if there were a fire on the lower levels, but I would assume a usage such as that would also require a fire suppression system.
The 4TH FLOOR is equipment only.
No fire suppression is required.
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,602
Reaction score
1,038
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
I was being HYPOTHETICAL, not referring to YOUR EXACT situation. If I had said "fifth floor" then you would have said, "That is the roof". You had better do it now then, because fire codes, NOT THE BUILDING CODES, are getting stricter about unprotected multi occupancy, multi floor structures, especially wood ones.
 
Last edited:

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
Okay to clarify the building I am working on is 3 units, one being an efficiency the other two are one bedroom units all on separate meters plus house meter all are sub panels and the main panel combo meter box serves as the main panel with 4 100 amp breaker for each panel it requires that the smoke alarms be on the house panel and all smoke alarms through the whole building. They will not be attached to a security or fire notification system.

It is a violation of the National Electrical Code to have a circuit from the house panel supply anything including 120 volt smoke alarms in any unit. 120 volt interconnected battery backup smoke alarms MUST be wired from the same panel supplying all other circuits of each unit.

Article 907 of the International Building Code mandates the installation of smoke alarms in dwelling units. Any building with dwelling units more than two floors above entry grade or any dwelling below entry grade will require a central “FIRE DETECTION” system be installed.

It is permissible to have a multifamily dwelling with smoke alarms wired from the panel in each unit and also have a central fire alarm panel for the entire building. Any and all fire alarm panels will have all detectors, strobes, horns, and pull stations wired with a fire alarm cable which is for the most part red in color and it will be at a low voltage.

We must know the differences between smoke alarms such as we have in our homes and fire or smoke detection. There is a big difference between these items and the rules for installing them is a lot different.

Smoke alarms are interconnected or are wired from one to the other without a control panel but detection devices are not interconnected and must have a control panel. Smoke alarms emit a sound and does nothing more but detection devices triggers the control panel to fire off a horn and or strobe and also calls emergency personal to the site.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks