Persistent Pump Burnouts

[chucky2]

Hi All,

I think you all have the only pump forum on the Internet!

My family has a smallish lake house that had a 1/2 HP Wayne deep well jet pump, 110v, and a tank (I don't remember the size) in a well pit about 5' below ground. The pump died a short few years back and we took the opportunity to replace the tank (it was probably from like 1960', from Sears) with a new tank and we went up to a 3/4 Wayne pump, 110v. That pump lasted like that year, perhaps into Thanksgiving of the next year, when it died and my uncle replaced it with another new 3/4 HP Wayne 110v - that was in 2013.

The 2nd 3/4 HP Wayne has now died. It pumped for about 2 minutes fine, the power was killed, hose detached, line to house opened up, power back on, pump made weird noise for about 10 seconds and then they shut it off/it died.

We're wondering if what we should do next? My dad remembers back in the mid to late 70's they took the line up, maybe 90' of it, and he remembers leather - so from my small amount of knowledge (from here and a manual from a convertible pump on Gould's site) sounds like we have a packer deep well?

That's about all I can say, any advice would be appreciated! What would you guys do? Is Wayne a good pump? Etc. Thanks in advance!

Chuck

 

[Valveman]

It sounds like you have a motor problem, not a pump problem. And with it only running 2 minutes, are you sure you don't have 230V attached?

 

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[Reach4]

Your theory of the well would go along with a 2 inch ID casing. If you have 4 or 5 inch ID casing, there would be an upgrade alternative to think of.

Also, I suggest that you vacuum out the bottom of your pit and figure out a way to tell if you get water in the pit. Maybe drop a crumpled facial tissue on the bottom.

With a pit, there is a concern that contaminated water will enter the well through an imperfect well seal.

 

[chucky2]

It sounds like you have a motor problem, not a pump problem. And with it only running 2 minutes, are you sure you don't have 230V attached?

Basically, it was working fine last year when we shut down the cottage and drained the lines (but didn't drain the pump, we've never done that). Then we leave a light on in there and cover the top with some 2" foam insulation - I'm not sure if eventually the light burned out over the winter.

The pump electrical lines are all setup so there is an electrical outlet in the pump pit, and 3 pronged electrical plug wired to the pump. All that is necessary is to plug the pump into the electrical outlet and we're off and running.

When they ran the pump this spring when it burned out, they just shut off water to the house in the pit, connected a hose we have in the pit to a spigot in the pit, turned on electrical to the pit, the pressure tank filled up, and then they opened the spigot and water came out, they let it run and let the pump run for a couple of minutes...water came out of hose fine. Thinking all was well, they shut off spigot, disconnected hose, opened line to house, turned pump back on. That's when it crapped out.

 

[chucky2]

Your theory of the well would go along with a 2 inch ID casing. If you have 4 or 5 inch ID casing, there would be an upgrade alternative to think of.

Also, I suggest that you vacuum out the bottom of your pit and figure out a way to tell if you get water in the pit. Maybe drop a crumpled facial tissue on the bottom.

With a pit, there is a concern that contaminated water will enter the well through an imperfect well seal.

The bottom of the pit is dirt (sandy dirt from what I remember). I've never gone and looked out there after persistent significant rain and checked if the floor was wet. There is a metal cover over the hole in the pit, but it does not seal perfectly, there are concrete imperfections around the lip that allow daylight through. Two pine trees border the pit though, so it's sort of sheltered from rain...but certainly I think water could get it. I'll try and see if I've got a picture around here somewhere...

 

[Valveman]

crapped out.

Does that mean the motor is shorted, locked up, or is the pump leaking, spraying, etc.?

 

[chucky2]

I myself don't have any pictures of the new pump and tank, but here is a pic of the old 1/2 pump that we first replaced:

 

[chucky2]

Does that mean the motor is shorted, locked up, or is the pump leaking, spraying, etc.?

I will talk to my uncle tonight, he told me but it was a couple of weeks ago and I just cannot remember specifically what he said at this point. Will post back later.

 

[DonL]

Not many pumps can survive a freeze.

That is one reason many pumps have a drain plug, And the manual tells you how to use it.


Good Luck.

 

[chucky2]

Does that mean the motor is shorted, locked up, or is the pump leaking, spraying, etc.?

The motor was locked up - the pump section was fine. He was able to pry the motor cooling impeller back into place (heard a snap/pop when that happened) and the motor and fan impeller now spin normally (and normal sounding).

 

[chucky2]

Not many pumps can survive a freeze.

That is one reason many pumps have a drain plug, And the manual tells you how to use it.


Good Luck.

The motor is about 4' below grade and the pump pit cover is covered by a large piece of 2 or 3" insulation board for the winter...I don't think anything would actually freeze down there - if the light is on, it's actually warm down there if you open the cover.

 

[chucky2]

Offhand question: What is the smallest diameter pipe we could run a submersible in?

 

[Reach4]

3 inches ID for the Grundfos SQ series. Many like those pumps even if there is room for a larger one. I am a little skeptical since they have considerable electronics in the pump and they may spin at high speeds. I don't know if there are real statistics on the SQ or SQE life vs a 4-inch pump (which is really 3.875 or 3.75 OD like mine). On the plus side, the SQ has soft start, which might reduce some stresses. I don't know if that means you would add another PSI to the pressure tank precharge or not. I have never seen anybody say that would be the case.

 

[Valveman]

The motor was locked up - the pump section was fine. He was able to pry the motor cooling impeller back into place (heard a snap/pop when that happened) and the motor and fan impeller now spin normally (and normal sounding).

Well then the problem is not from freezing or electrical. Sounds like you just have a cheap built motor if the cooling fan just "popped" out of place.

 

[DonL]

That pressure gauge looks like it may have water in it, Or did. Or is it Oil filed ?

That pit looks like it may have been Flooded.

If the motor was under water, it can get hosed quick. Snow Melt Run Off can be a problem, In northern parts.


Good Luck.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

With a Wayne pump, it might not work out of the box, so you did pretty good if you made it 2 minutes.

 

[chucky2]

3 inches ID for the Grundfos SQ series. Many like those pumps even if there is room for a larger one. I am a little skeptical since they have considerable electronics in the pump and they may spin at high speeds. I don't know if there are real statistics on the SQ or SQE life vs a 4-inch pump (which is really 3.875 or 3.75 OD like mine). On the plus side, the SQ has soft start, which might reduce some stresses. I don't know if that means you would add another PSI to the pressure tank precharge or not. I have never seen anybody say that would be the case.

Thanks for the info, we'll have to make a trip out there and see what we've got - I don't even know if we have that. If we do, maybe that's the way to go then.

Well then the problem is not from freezing or electrical. Sounds like you just have a cheap built motor if the cooling fan just "popped" out of place.

Yes, sounds like it. This is two in a row now...I just wonder if it's the Wayne or something else is messing it up. It's hard to believe something could be that bad now, especially since they'd last 10 years or more from what I remember when Grandpa was out here.

That pressure gauge looks like it may have water in it, Or did. Or is it Oil filed ?

It's oil filled.

That pit looks like it may have been Flooded.

The pit has never been flooded, that much I can say for certain. I'm not sure how much water collects when it's really pouring, especially for a sustained amount of time, but I don't think to my knowledge we've ever pulled the cover looked down and seen even a little standing water down there.

If the motor was under water, it can get hosed quick. Snow Melt Run Off can be a problem, In northern parts.
Good Luck.

It must be a light trick...very confident that the pit doesn't have that much water going into it.

With a Wayne pump, it might not work out of the box, so you did pretty good if you made it 2 minutes.

Uh oh, you have history with Wayne pumps? We thought going from the always used here 1/2 HP to 3/4 HP we'd make it easier on the pump. Unless something else is going on, that certainly hasn't been the case.

Thanks everyone for the comments!