Inspection hell (or why not to DIY)

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Giantsean

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The vent comes off at the same level as the trap arm, not below.
When it's vented below, it can still siphon the trap. That's why your plumbing inspector said it was too low.

Apologies I think (I hope) you got me wrong. I still plan to scrap the fully intend to rework it as per the advice here (assuming it's still same as the pic below). The vent will go up the wall behind the bay that the tub drain is in.

The only thing I wanted to confirm is whether I could tie in the trap somehow to the existing 2" drain somewhere before it drops below the ceiling, as it's already hooked up down below and would be much easier to cut inside the floor. That's all.

If you're saying I can't do that under any circumstance until it goes through the sheetrock into the room downstairs, then it's a moot point and I will have to find a way to raise the entire tub drain line

9.jpg
 

hj

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quote; . it's already hooked up down below and would be much easier to cut inside the floor

What part of "just lift the drain line UP" at the trap end don't you seem to understand? It is PLASTIC, not copper or steel.
 

Giantsean

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[/QUOTE="hj, post: 448817, member: 7"]quote; . it's already hooked up down below and would be much easier to cut inside the floor
What part of "just lift the drain line UP" at the trap end don't you seem to understand? It is PLASTIC, not copper or steel.[/QUOTE]

Pardon the complete ignorance but do you mean literally lift one end up once we cut out the "wrong" tub vent and freeing it? If so I probably didn't realize it could be that simple without violating some codes on proper slope and/or stressing the existing connection by bending. This is why I'm not a plumber :)

I do feel obliged to give a little background. This home has been in my family since the 1968 (my childhood home). My dad while always loving the house and wanting great things for it, allowed it to fall into a state of severe disrepair. For whatever reason I felt obliged to make it right again, and thanks to too many big ideas and a particularly bad experience w/ a builder who left us high and dry, I have to carry on with limited funds. Sappy I know, but I've been asked too many times why I'm not calling architects and pros. Believe me I'd love to but this is what I got.

SINCERE thanks for everyone's help and patience.
 

hj

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quote; I probably didn't realize it could be that simple without violating some codes on proper slope and/or stressing the existing connection by bending.

Yes, as far as "slope" is concerned, if it were on a 45 degree angle it would be 12" per foot. If it were vertical it would be 12" per ZERO inches so anything between 1/4" and vertical is acceptable. ANd since it is plastic there is no problem raising it.
 

Giantsean

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quote; I probably didn't realize it could be that simple without violating some codes on proper slope and/or stressing the existing connection by bending.

Yes, as far as "slope" is concerned, if it were on a 45 degree angle it would be 12" per foot. If it were vertical it would be 12" per ZERO inches so anything between 1/4" and vertical is acceptable. ANd since it is plastic there is no problem raising it.

Ah very clear, thank you! Am I correct to say that the trap arm must be level for at least 8", but after that it can connect directly to the lifted 2" tub drain pipe? I will still have to 45 left at some point in order to get to the tub drain as it is 3" out of line on center with where the actual tub drain will go.
 

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quote;
I will still have to 45 left at some point in order to get to the tub drain as it is 3" out of line on center with where the actual tub drain will go.
I would have to do it myself to verify that your statement is correct, because the piping between the end of the drain line, trap, and vent riser in the wall can be done many ways, some with fewer fittings than others. The trap arm does not have to be "level" anywhere.
 

Giantsean

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quote;
I will still have to 45 left at some point in order to get to the tub drain as it is 3" out of line on center with where the actual tub drain will go.
I would have to do it myself to verify that your statement is correct, because the piping between the end of the drain line, trap, and vent riser in the wall can be done many ways, some with fewer fittings than others. The trap arm does not have to be "level" anywhere.

Ok I see. In researching a solution (really learning from scratch) I was reading about how ideally a trap arm should slope not much more than the 1/4" per foot... I must have took it as a requirement and not a recommendation. I think the context too was not applicable as it was more talking about how the bottom of the trap arm cannot be higher than the highest point of the vent inlet.

It really makes me wonder why he bothered to design such a complicated system (and wrong in many respects) when ultimately it seems so much simpler and less impactful to just do as you guys have recommended. I mean he really IS a plumber and you figure he would see this stuff every day. If I recall right the only spec I changed was the tub width, but I can't see that as having a meaningful impact on where vents go.
 

hj

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Not all plumbers know all the phases of the trade. It depends on what segment they have been working in. Guys that install drain lines may not get to work on water lines, or installing fixtures, or vice versa.
 

Jadnashua

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The maximum trap arm distances to the vent line are based on 1/4"/foot drop. If you make that slope steeper, your vent must be correspondingly closer to the trap. The goal is to ensure that there is an air path to actually vent the line and not siphon the p-trap dry.
 

Onokai

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Just cut that wrong stuff out and redo while its all exposed-no big deal. Show the guy this thread or hire a real plumber your choice.
At this point its so easy to fix right.
Mark
 

Giantsean

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in this case, if they do it properly, which I am getting less sure of, the vent will be AT the trap so the distance limitation is a non-issue.

Is it pretty much as simple as this?

10.jpg


I'll know for sure today as the actual town inspector is coming out to help confirm that the above will fly before I do it, which I think is pretty damned considerate of him.
 

Giantsean

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Reason #257 that I'm neither a plumber or a draftsperson

Interestingly the inspector seems to have changed his tune. He advised to leave the middle alone as it's already done vs. drilling more holes. He would sign off on the idea to go through another joist and up the bay next to the lav (his suggestion, not mine - after I told him what I intended to do) and that he'd also let the trap go if it pitched up a bit.

I still intend to do what you guys suggested here, but SMH a bit at my local establishment :)
 

Jadnashua

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The vent must come off AFTER the trap and before that line turns down (and within the max distance for the size of the pipe being used). As show, you have an open path from the vent line into the tub, not protected by the trap. If that vent line was connected to any of the rest of the plumbing, it would allow sewer gasses a direct path into your bathtub, or at the least, a direct path to the outside. Get a wind just right, and you'd have a nice cold breeze or a path for bugs, etc., into the house.
 

Giantsean

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The vent must come off AFTER the trap and before that line turns down (and within the max distance for the size of the pipe being used). As show, you have an open path from the vent line into the tub, not protected by the trap. If that vent line was connected to any of the rest of the plumbing, it would allow sewer gasses a direct path into your bathtub, or at the least, a direct path to the outside. Get a wind just right, and you'd have a nice cold breeze or a path for bugs, etc., into the house.

Ok so it will tee off on the trap arm/drain segment. I was thrown off a little as most applications I have seen go vertical inside a wall with a vent straight up (which is indeed after the trap), but mine will drain under the tub instead.
 

hj

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quote; I was thrown off a little as most applications I have seen go vertical inside a wall with a vent straight up (which is indeed after the trap),

IF you think that is how they were done, you are mistaken. ALL of them run the way you have been advised to do this one.
 
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