Toilet bolts 11-1/4" in

[spartan91]

I am replacing a toilet. It appears 12 inches is the common measurement from wall to bolts. Mine is 11.25''. It was from the wall, not the bullnose.

Will a 12' 'work? If not, what are the best suggestions? I've heard offset flanges can plug easily.

Other info for any tips in advance you can think of: Lower level toilet (tri level house so it's about 4' below ground level). Very small bathroom and looking for inexpensive toilets. Any issues regarding quality of toilet/flushing strength and the fact that the toilet is below ground?

Thanks in advance! Had great responses to an electrical question earlier.

Mark

 

[Terry]

Most 12" now will work at 11-1/4"
TOTO CST744 series at 10-7/8"
TOTO CST454 series, 11.5"
Many A/S Cadets will work at 11.25

 

[Sponsor]

 

[spartan91]

Mosts 12" now will work at 11-1/4"
TOTO CST744 series at 10-7/8"
TOTO CST454 series, 11.5"
Many A/S Cadets willl work at 11.25

Terry, thanks for the info.

I have to replace the flange since it is cracked where the bolt goes. A handyman said the source of a small leak from an upstairs toilet was from the flange not being raised when they tiled the floor and the seal wasn't great causing water to do down. I'm sure this was tiled at the same time.

Is this a good height for the flange? Can a bigger wax ring accomplish the same thing if necessary?

 

[Terry]

If the flange is above the floor, then a single wax will do.
For those flanges that are lower, we stak two wax rings. They do make a thinker wax that is 1.5 times standard size, but we don't carry those on the vans. Often that isn't enough anyway.
If your flange has a crack where the bolt hold down is, you can slap a repair ring over for bolt support.

This one has holes farther out on the ring.

 

[spartan91]

If the flange is above the floor, then a single wax will do.
For those flanges that are lower, we stak two wax rings. They do make a thinker wax that is 1.5 times standard size, but we don't carry those on the vans. Often that isn't enough anyway.
If your flange has a crack where the bolt hold down is, you can slap a repair ring over for bolt support.

I was looking at repair rings and one thing that I'm stuck with is there doesn't appear to be a way to secure the ring to the floor.

No screws are used now. I'm guessing it's glued to the sewer line? Only one spot might have solid concrete (maybe tile mortar? ) underneath. The other 3 holes my screwdriver pushes all the way down.

I've been told to fill it with cement and then drill tapcon 3/16 x 2 1/4 anchors even if it means drilling through the current broken plastic flange, making sure the new stainless steel ring bolt holes will be parallel with the wall.

Can you think of anything else/better?

Mark

 

[spartan91]

I was looking at repair rings and one thing that I'm stuck with is there doesn't appear to be a way to secure the ring to the floor.

No screws are used now. I'm guessing it's glued to the sewer line? Only one spot might have solid concrete (maybe tile mortar? ) underneath. The other 3 holes my screwdriver pushes all the way down.

I've been told to fill it with cement and then drill tapcon 3/16 x 2 1/4 anchors even if it means drilling through the current broken plastic flange, making sure the new stainless steel ring bolt holes will be parallel with the wall.

Can you think of anything else/better?

Mark

Here is a pic w/o the cloth in case it helps

 

[Jadnashua]

Most pros will never use that all-plastic toilet flange for the reason you've found...they crack. Plus, there really are designed to be anchored through the finished material and sit on TOP of the finished floor. There's lots of screw anchor holes for a reason! Yes, lots of them are located where yours is, and yes, they work, but that is not how they were designed, it is often much simpler in the scheme of things. At the minimum, you want a flange with a SS metal ring, not an all-plastic one. What's underneath? Is this on a cement slab, or a wooden subfloor? If it's in a slab, it may be tough to replace and the repair ring is probably your best bang for the buck. If you have access from below and it's a wooden subfloor, you can cut out enough and rebuild with new.

What type of pipe is below? Looks like cast iron? Is that the type of flange that has a gasket on it that is a push fit into the pipe? If the pipe's interior is not nice and clean and smooth, those do not work very well at making a seal. Now, you may never know it unless there's a clog, but gasses could still escape.

 

[spartan91]

Here is a pic w/o the cloth in case it helpsView attachment 28409

Here is a pic w/o the cloth in case it helpsView attachment 28409

Thanks for the reply. It's the lower level bathroom so a concrete slab is underneath. The problem is even with a metal ring with wide screw holes I might end up cracking the tile since the edge is close.

I think it is cast iron pipe. It is reddish brown inside and very pitted/coarse(?).

How do I tell if it's the flange you asked about? I will upload pics that might give you the answer.

It appears that there is a 7.5 inch hole in the concrete slab, then about an inch of crumbling mortar all the way around, then the pipe/flange merely glued in. How do I attach a repair ring when I can't anchor into anything below?

 

[spartan91]

Something went wrong with my last reply. I'll try again...

Thanks for the reply. It's the lower level bathroom so a concrete slab is underneath. The problem is even with a metal ring with wide screw holes I might end up cracking the tile since the edge is close.

I think it is cast iron pipe. It is reddish brown inside and very pitted/coarse(?).

How do I tell if it's the flange you asked about? I will upload pics that might give you the answer.

It appears that there is a 7.5 inch hole in the concrete slab, then about an inch of crumbling mortar all the way around, then the pipe/flange merely glued in. How do I attach a repair ring when I can't anchor into anything below?

 

[Reach4]

Can you lift that PVC flange out of the cast iron?

 

[Jadnashua]

Can you lift that PVC flange out of the cast iron?

I'll second that...!

It appears that they used one of these, and it will just pull out.

While you have it out, you could pack something like some hydraulic cement in around the gap. OR, if you're more inclined, you could get a plumber to install a leaded CI flange. YOu may be able to find a CI expanding toilet flange...HD used to carry them, but I've not seen one there for awhile. My guess is they still make them. Try to clean up the CI pipe before you install anything new to ensure you get a good seal.

 

[spartan91]

I didn't try to pull it out very hard for fear of breaking it more. At this point should that plastic piece come out. (Even if it means breaking it) to see what I am working with or is it better to try and keep it intact?

 

[spartan91]

Pulling it out isn't an option. Since it has to be secured to the floor, they must have set it in cement to secure the ring because I can't get it to budge at all.

If I put a repair ring with wide screws holes I should be able to find concrete on the left side, which happens to be where the crack is.

Could I then just leave the right side not fastened and put the bolts into the pvc slots to secure the toilet?

IOW, the ring is around the whole thing but only fastened where the force will be applied (left side) and the right side would be fastened with the pvc flange which is secure.

 

[Reach4]

I think you can have each closet bolt go through the PVC and the repair ring both. Just align things. Then screw down the repair ring as best you can.

There are fasteners that can screw the repair ring to just wood, and there are fasteners that can fasten to concrete. I figure there is wood or something under the tile.

You would want to drill through the tile part. Drilling through ceramic tile is not too bad. You need a masonry bit to do that. Drilling through porcelain tile is much harder. You need a more special bit and technique for that. Once you drill a clearance hole through the tile, you can drill with a small diameter drill further. That should tell you for each hole if you want a wood screw, a concrete screw, or possibly something else.

 

[hj]

quote; Can you think of anything else/better?

Lots of things, but the first one would be to remove that flange, (there is no way to fasten a PVC flange to a cast iron pipe anyway), and install a new metal one designed for cast iron pipe. EIther a compression, or better yet, one with a lead/oakum joint.

 

[spartan91]

quote; Can you think of anything else/better?

Lots of things, but the first one would be to remove that flange, (there is no way to fasten a PVC flange to a cast iron pipe anyway), and install a new metal one designed for cast iron pipe. EIther a compression, or better yet, one with a lead/oakum joint.

Thanks for the advice. I cut out the pvc flange and it didn't have any kind of rubber gasket. Simply pvc glued into the pipe and mortared around the ring to keep it steady (no bolts). I'm guessing that's why that bathroom always had a faint smell to it.

Now that I have it out, what steps do I take to secure the new flange? Should I fill in that one inch gap with quikrete and screw the flange into that? Does there have to be an opening around the pipe for some reason? Also, do I do anything to the inside of the pipe?

 

[Jadnashua]

That sort of looks like a CI hub. What is the ID of that pipe? Is that a step maybe down a bit over an inch? Most hubs are a bit deeper than that.

 

[spartan91]

That sort of looks like a CI hub. What is the ID of that pipe? Is that a step maybe down a bit over an inch? Most hubs are a bit deeper than that.

4'' ID. It's about a half inch to 3/4 below the concrete slab. Then the tile makes it not quite an inch below the top of the tile.

 

[spartan91]

I would prefer not to use the oakum/lead technique since I don't have any of the tools for it. If you think it is absolutely necessary, I could have a handyman who has done work for me do it . I'm guessing it would take him longer to drive here than to do the job.

What is the second best method that doesn't require molten lead?

 

[Reach4]

Now that I have it out, what steps do I take to secure the new flange? Should I fill in that one inch gap with quikrete and screw the flange into that? Does there have to be an opening around the pipe for some reason? Also, do I do anything to the inside of the pipe?

I would use mortar mix because you don't want big stones. Find or make a cylinder to match the pipe OD to keep the area above the pipe free of concrete during hardening.

Inside of pipe, I would sand off high spots.

Genova 75158S looks interesting. Looks to have wider flex gasket than 887-GPM from Sioux Chief. http://www.siouxchief.com/products/drainage/residential/closet-flanges/pushtite shows a small red flange on that. I wonder why they don't use the red gasket shown for the 886-GP.

I suspect there is some kind of pipe dope that would be good for making a better seal in the face of surface imperfections. Maybe Rectorseal T plus 2 or Maybe somebody has a better suggestion for that such as a putty such as one of these:http://www.oatey.com/products/putty-caulks-and-water-barriers/plumbers-putty.